§ THE EARL OF WEMYSS, in moving—
That in view of the fact that many millions of the working classes of London are compelled habitually to travel on the Metropolitan District Railway, and that their health and convenience is greatly dependent upon the improved means of ventilation recently provided by the railway company under powers granted by Parliament after full inquiry before Committees of both Houses, it be an instruction to the Committee to whom the said Bills are referred to allow the attendance before them and take the evidence of the representatives of the London Trades Council, and such other associated bodies as the Committee may desire, in order that the case of the working men may be fully heard,said, that the Committee would do well to consider two points—first, whether the compensation to be paid to the Railway Company under this Bill would be sufficient; and, secondly, who was to pay it? With regard to the first point, it appeared to him that the mere doing away with the ventilators and making the ground good was hardly sufficient; for, unquestionably, the Railway Company 504 ought to be compensated for the value of the concession which, after being given them by Parliament, had been taken from them, as well as for the work they had carried out. Then, as to the second point, who was to pay the compensation? he would ask how it happened that the First Commissioner of Works, the President of the Board of Trade, and the Chairman of the Metropolitan Board of Works, who were supposed to be custodians of the Metropolis in matters of æsthetics, had allowed the Bill to be passed, and these ventilators to be constructed? The answer was that, under the present system of management, there was no joint action on the part of these Bodies; and that only showed how necessary it was that some change should be made in the conduct of these matters by the Metropolitan Board and Her Majesty's Office of Works. It appeared, then, to him that the persons who ought, in the first instance, to be liable to the Railway Company for their expenditure on these ventilators should be the First Commissioner of Her Majesty's Works and the Chairman of the Metropolitan Board. But, in any case, he thought the ratepayers ought not to be called upon to pay for what was, in fact, the result of an Act of Parliament; and it appeared to him that this compensation, be it large or small, should come out of the Imperial Exchequer, and net out of local funds. He trusted their Lordships would allow the Instruction to pass, and that the Working Men's Trades Council and other Associated Bodies should, on petitioning to that effect, be heard before the Committee. The increase of traffic on these subterranean railways had increased enormously, and the working men, who were obliged to travel backwards and forwards by them, complained that the atmosphere was not only most noxious and noissome, but hurtful to health. They were most anxious, therefore, that there should be a satisfactory system of ventilation. The Committee of the House of Commons had recommended that some of the holes should be left open; but what the working men feared was that the Metropolitan Board of Works might ask the Committee of their Lordships' House to go much further than the Committee of the other House had done, and to close more of these ventilators. 505Moved, That in view of the fact that many millions of the working classes of London are compelled habitually to travel on the Metropolitan District Railway, and that their health and convenience is greatly dependent upon the improved means of ventilation recently provided by the railway company under powers granted by Parliament after full inquiry before Committees of both Houses, it be an instruction to the Committee to whom the said Bills are referred to allow the attendance before them and take the evidence of the representatives of the London Trades Council, and such other associated bodies as the Committee may desire, in order that the case of the working men may be fully heard, provided a petition from such council or other associated bodies be presented to the House."—(The Earl of Wemyss.)
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, no doubt there was a great deal of feeling both for and against the question of these ventilators; but, for himself, he had no wish to say a single word as regarded its merits. Under those circumstances, it seemed to him just and desirable that all parties should be heard before the Committee who had to decide it. If these parties had a locus standi before the Committee, without any Instruction from their Lordships, he should not be inclined to vote for this Instruction; but, as he understood such was not the case, he certainly had no objection to the proposal of the noble Earl.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, that, after what had fallen from the noble Earl opposite (Earl Granville), the case seemed too clear for argument. They ought certainly to allow everyone who was directly or indirectly interested to be heard, and, therefore, he should support the Motion.
THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM, as Chairman of the Committee referred to, said, he wished to point out to the House that, although this was a question upon which there had been a good deal of feeling shown, yet that when the Bill came before the Committee of their Lordships' House, there was no discussion and no opposition, and it became his duty to report it as an unopposed Bill to the House. He quite concurred, however, in the proposal of the noble Earl (the Earl of Wemyss), and could sue no objection to it.
§ THE EARL OF REDESDALE (CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES)Said, that the question was a peculiar one. He had never known of a case like it. These parties could not properly appear before the Committee, because they had no locus 506 standi. As it was an exceptional case, he would not offer any opposition to the Motion, but leave the matter in their Lordships' hands.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, he wished to know the position of the House with regard to the Bills? He thought the Motion, even if agreed to, would be nugatory, for the Committee had made their Report, and all opposition to the Bills had been withdrawn; there was, therefore, nothing on which the Motion could operate.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, it would seem that the Committee had ceased to have cognizance of the Bill. It was difficult for the House to give an Instruction to a Committee, if, at the present moment, the Bill was not before anybody.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, he thought that the best thing to do would be to adjourn the debate; and he would, therefore, move that the debate be adjourned. It was quite clear, whether the noble Earl at the Table (the Earl of Redesdale) accepted the Motion or not, that the debate had adjourned itself.
Further debate on the said Motion adjourned till To-morrow.