SECOND READING. (Hansard, 21 August 1883)

§ LORD CARLINGFORD (LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL),
in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, the Bill had been prepared with great care to meet the admitted want in Ireland of improved means of communication. Ireland was very deficient in branch lines of railway, and attempts in the ordinary way to supply that deficiency by means of Companies established by Private Bills had not been successful. The Bill proposed the construction, not of ordinary railroads, but of tramways, or light railways, and it provided an improved method of guarantee for that purpose. A baronial guarantee was to be provided by the Grand Jury of the county, and that guarantee would take effect, provided that no opposition were offered, by the Order of the Lord Lieutenant and the Irish Privy Council. Thereby great expense would be saved. If opposition were made to the Order in Council, the Order would have to come before Parliament in the shape of a Provisional Order and be submitted to the decision of Parliament. The Treasury was empowered to make a limited grant in aid of the baronial guarantee, and great care had been taken, by the provisions which would be found in the Bill, to prevent the possible loss of any part of such grant. The local authority would also be placed under the strongest motive to take care that its guarantee was not given to untrustworthy promoters. In case the Company who undertook the 1479 tramway were unable to carry it on, the local authority would be compelled to take upon their own shoulders all the responsibilities of the unsuccessful Company. The second object of the Bill was to promote emigration; and, by the application of a portion of the Church Fund, Government would be able to contribute £8 a-head to the cost of each emigrant sent out by private efforts, such as Mr. Tuke's fund, instead of the £5 hitherto contributed. With regard to the clauses which were intended to facilitate the sale of land to Companies in certain cases, and its purchase by the tenants, the effect of those clauses would be that the Land Commission, which had not yet been able to carry out the Purchase Clauses to any considerable extent, would now be able, when they had satisfied themselves that proper security could be given, to make use of any Public Company or Association that might move in the matter for the purchase of land and the re-sale of it to the tenants. Such a Company would stand as an intermediary between the Land Commission on the one hand, and the landlords and tenants on the other. There seemed fair reason to hope that such local associations might be formed, and that they would give some life and motion to those Purchase Clauses, at all events within certain limits. It was also provided that means might be taken for the purpose of trying that experiment of which they had heard so much, and to which so many persons of high authority in Ireland were greatly attached—namely, the idea of what had been called migration, or the removing of tenants from crowded districts and placing them on unoccupied lands. The Companies who might obtain loans under this Bill would be at liberty not only to sell the lands they might acquire to the occupying tenants, but, in case they bought unoccupied lands, they would be at liberty to sell them to other parties, or to any persons or associations who might undertake to settle upon them families to be moved from other districts. The system for that purpose would be exactly the same as that which had worked with so much success in the matter of emigration, which was intrusted to the discretion of the Lord Lieutenant, and which, provided they could trust the person to whom that discretion was intrusted, was, he be- 1480 lieved, the only way to successfully manage such matters. Hitherto, the emigration conducted under the authority of the Lord Lieutenant had been successfully conducted; and if the facilities provided for trying the experiment of migration should come to anything, that system would be worked under the responsibility and control of the Lord Lieutenant. He was bound to say a very strong desire had been expressed by persons of all parties and politics in favour of trying that experiment of removal from the most crowded districts to any suitable unoccupied lands that might be found. He had noticed some of the names of those who took the warmest interest in the matter, and they included those of Mr. O'Connor Power, Mr. Parnell, Mr. Rathbone, who represented Mr. Tuke's Committee, Colonel King-Harman, Mr. Hinde Palmer, Mr. Mitchell Henry, and many others. He (Lord Carlingford) was not able to predict himself that anything important would come out of the facilities thus to be given for migration. He did not feel that he had enough information to speak with confidence; but he hoped their Lordships would see that it was highly expedient that means should be afforded for making such an experiment, and he believed a large number of influential persons would only be satisfied when such an experiment was made. The control given to the Lord Lieutenant was such that the work to be done would not, and could not, be intrusted to improper hands. These were the main provisions of the Bill. They dealt with three or four matters which were of the greatest interest in Ireland and which required the attention of Parliament, and he was very hopeful that the efforts that had been made to frame the Bill might not be without happy results. He hoped their Lordships would not cut this Bill short in its career in the same way in which they had cut short two other Bills that evening.

§ VISCOUNT BURY
said, the Bill was in reality three Bills, the first relating to tramways, the second was to amend certain clauses of an Act of last Session, and the next dealt with land. It was what he called a system of packing, and either all three must be accepted or all 1481 three rejected. He did not rise to oppose the Bill; but he really wished to know why clauses relating to emigration were inserted in a Bill dealing with tramways?

§ LORD CARLINGFORD (LORD PRESIDENT of the COUNCIL)
Because it was found convenient in this instance.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, he thought the Bill was rather anomalous, and he doubted whether the title expressed all the Bill did. The principal objection to the Bill was, he thought, that it was the most irregularly constructed thing he had ever seen. It was called the Tramways and Public Companies (Ireland) Bill. What had Tramways and Public Companies to say to the planting of trees? If any objection was to be made to the Bill it was an objection of a pecuniary character, with which the House would not deal. The objects of the Bill must have the sympathy of every noble Lord in the House; and except in the way in which it dealt, perhaps, a little extravagantly with public money, he hoped that the various subjects with which it treated—tramways, emigration, and the planting of trees—might be successfully carried out.

§ LORD HARLECH
said, he thought the proper name of the Bill would be an "Omnibus" Bill, as it contained no less than three entirely distinct subjects—namely, tramways, emigration, and land. The provisions relating to the first deserved attention, coming, as they did, from a Liberal Government, who professed to stand up for the rights of the people; whereas, in this Bill, the Presentment or Road Sessions, which were supposed to be the popular tribunal, were entirely ignored, and the whole power was thrown into the hands of the Grand Jury, subject only to the approval, or otherwise, of the Lord Lieutenant.