Lords Sitting of 10 March 1882

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Industrial Schools* (34).
Second Reading—Slate Mines (Gunpowder)* (28).
Third Reading—Consolidated Fund (No. 1)*, and passed.

ATTEMPT UPON THE LIFE OF HER MAJESTY.

  THE QUEEN'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
  The Queen's Answer to the Address of both Houses of Parliament of Monday last reported by The LORD STEWARD (The Earl SYDNEY) as follows:—
  MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN,
  I RECEIVE with heartfelt satisfaction the loyal and dutiful Address from My two Houses of Parliament.
  I am thankful to the Almighty whose merciful care has protected Me and My beloved child from danger.
  In My sincere desire to promote the welfare of My people, I am comforted and supported by the continued assurance of your attachment to My person and My throne.
  Ordered that the Address and Answer be printed and published. (No. 36.)

SOUTH AFRICA—THE TRANSVAAL.

  OBSERVATIONS. QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONwished to ask his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies a Question, of which he had given him private Notice, in reference to a report which had appeared in the morning papers that some fighting had occurred between the Boers and the Natives in the North-West of the Transvaal, which, it would seem, had almost assumed the dimensions of a war. The hostilities, so far, had been very disastrous to the Boers; and he should be glad to know whether his noble Friend could give their Lordships any definite information upon the subject? He would further ask whether his noble Friend could state the cause of the disturbance and the progress of events? Their Lordships would recollect that, by the Convention concluded last year with the Transvaal, the control of Native affairs
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  was reserved to this country; the English Sovereign was created, so to speak, Suzerain of the country; and a British Resident was appointed, who was to give his sanction and consent on behalf of this country, before the undertaking by the Boer Government of any important measures, such as a war might be presumed to be. He should like to ask his noble Friend whether the sanction of the British Resident had been asked or obtained with reference to this Native war? At the present stage he did not wish to make any comment on the matter, except to say this much—first, that, as far as he understood, the Chief Montsioa, with whom these hostilities had been carried on, had been, until now, much attached to this country, and a protected Chief; and, secondly, that these disturbances were like a prairie fire and spread all around, unless they were subdued at the outset. He could only say that the hostilities reported this morning, if they were correct, were a very bad augury indeed for the success of the Convention established last year.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY, in reply, said, that he had no official information with regard to the telegrams which appeared in that morning's papers, and was possessed of no further information as to what was contained in those telegrams. The Government had, however, received previous intelligence of what was going on on the Frontier, and these events were, no doubt, the sequel to that, so far as he understood the telegram. The precise origin of these difficulties he did not know that he could explain; but he could inform their Lordships that they were in the nature of those disputes on the Frontier which, as his noble Friend was aware, repeatedly occurred on the Western Frontier of the Transvaal with the Bechuana Tribes. In this particular case he believed that the hostilities arose between a Chief called Moshette, whose territory lay almost entirely within the Frontier-line of the Transvaal, and the Chief Montsioa, whose territory lay outside the new line. There had also been disturbances between two other Chiefs, and in all these disputes it appeared that a certain number of the Boers had taken part. There was considerable fighting about the 20th or 21st of January, which was officially reported to the Home Government. He had communicated with the British Resi-

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  dent at Pretoria, and desired him to call upon the Transvaal Government to take such measures as might be necessary on their part to maintain the neutrality of the Frontier. The Transvaal Government, they found, had already taken steps by sending down Commandant Joubert and a certain number of police to the Frontier to maintain order, and had also issued a Proclamation of neutrality. So far as Her Majesty's Government knew, the Transvaal Government had acted in good faith, and were taking such measures as were required to preserve neutrality. He had no more recent official information; but he thought it would be found that those who had taken part in these disturbances were individuals on the Frontier who were always ready, he was afraid, to embark in any quarrel which might promise profit to themselves, and that such disturbances as were going on were not sanctioned by the Transvaal Government. With reference to the remark of his noble Friend as to the evil augury of these disturbances for the success of the Convention, he could only say that, whatever might be the efforts of the Transvaal Government to maintain order on the Frontier, such disturbances were likely from time to time to occur. His noble Friend had referred to Montsioa as a protected Chief. So far as he knew, that Chief never was protected by the British Government, though he had been always on very good terms with it. He had no further information to give his noble Friend; but any that came into his possession he would lose no time in communicating to the House.

PUBLIC WORKS (INDIA).

  ADDRESS FOR PAPERS.
  THE EARL OF LYTTON, in rising to move—
  "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for copies of extracts of all correspondence between the Secretary of State for India and the Governor General in Council, from the 1st of January 1878 to the present time, respecting the prosecution, firstly, of productive public works by means of borrowed funds; secondly, of works designed for protection against famine and commonly described as protective works; and thirdly, of the measures taken for the purpose of famine insurance,"
  said, he understood that the Motion would be unopposed; but perhaps his noble Friend the Under Secretary of State
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  for India would allow him to take this opportunity of asking him when the Returns would be laid upon the Table. It had been announced in the Gracious Speech from the Throne that, in consequence of the cessation of hostilities upon North-West Frontier, and other favourable circumstances, Her Majesty's Government in India had been able to resume works of public utility, which had been suspended, and to take other measures for the further improvement of the people. The prosecution of public works, and provision for the protection of the country against the calamities of recurrent famine, were matters of vital importance to the welfare of India; and it would doubtless be gratifying to their Lordships to learn from the Correspondence on this subject what were the works of public utility which, having been suspended, were now resumed; what were the measures now being taken for the further improvement of the people, and what the instructions addressed by the Secretary of State for India to the Governor General in Council on these matters. This information would also greatly enhance the interest attaching to the Budget just published in India, which appeared to be of a highly satisfactory character, both as regards the normal growth of the Revenue, the practical results of the measures taken some years ago for its improvement, and with the sagacity and judgment with which these results were now being utilized for the emancipation of trade and the reduction of burdens on consumption. He hoped Her Majesty's Government had no objection to the Motion of which he had given Notice.
  VISCOUNT ENFIELD, in reply, said, there would be no objection on the part of Her Majesty's Government to give his noble Friend the Returns he had moved for. His noble Friend was quite right in saying that these Returns would contain information of a most interesting and important character. He could assure his noble Friend, on the part of the Secretary of State for India, and of the Government generally, that there would be no unnecessary delay in presenting and publishing the Papers; but some time must elapse before that could be done. They knew the interest which his noble Friend took in this subject, and he knew the character of the

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  Returns, and that they would require time to prepare; but there should be no unnecessary delay. The Motion, he might say, partook of no Party character whatever.
  Motion agreed to.
  Address for,
  "Copies or extracts of all correspondence between the Secretary of State for India and the Governor General in Council, from the 1st of January 1878 to the present time, respecting the prosecution, firstly, of productive public works by means of borrowed funds; secondly, of works designed for protection against famine and commonly described as protective works; and thirdly, of measures taken for the purpose of famine insurance."—(The Earl of Lytton.)

ARMY—MILITIA ADJUTANTS.

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF GALLOWAYasked the Under Secretary of State for War, Whether there is any probability of terms being offered to the thirty remaining adjutants of militia appointed before the introduction of the new system in 1871–72 as inducement to retire from the service, similar to those offered in the Royal Warrant of 1875 to adjutants of militia seeking retirement before 1877?
  THE EARL OF MORLEY: It is not the intention of the Secretary of State for War to offer the adjutants of Militia appointed before 1871 the special terms of retirement offered to them for six months in the year 1875. As, however, it has been determined to retire these officers compulsorily at the age of 55, to compensate them the Royal Warrant provides a more liberal retiring pension for officers so retired—namely, after seven years' service, 6s. a-day; after 10 years' service, 7s. a-day; after 15 years' service, 8s. a-day; after 20 years' service, 10 s. a-day—the maximum rate being the same as the maximum rate offered in 1875. Officers who retire voluntarily, before reaching the age of 55, will receive the rates of pension already fixed—namely, after seven years' service, 5s. a-day; after 10 years' service, 6s. a-day; after 15 years' service, 7s. a-day; after 20 years' service, 8s. a-day. And it is not the intention of the Secretary of State to alter or vary these rates. They all had the option of retiring on the exceptionally favourable pensions offered to them in 1875.
  THE EARL OF GALLOWAYexpressed a hope that as soon as possible the Se-
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  cretary of State for War would find his way to dealing more favourably towards men on whom great extra duties had been imposed.

  INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to consolidate and amend the enactments relating to Industrial Schools and Reformatories in England and Wales—Was presented by The Earl STANHOPE; read 1a. (No. 34.)
  House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.