Lords Sitting of 6 March 1882

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Claims of Peerage, &c. re-appointed and nominated; Land Law (Ireland), The Duke of Sutherland added v. The Earl of Clarendon.
PUBLIC BILL—First Reading—Slate Mines (Gunpowder) ✶ (28).

ATTEMPT UPON THE LIFE OF HER MAJESTY.

  ADDRESS TO HER MAJESTY.
  EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I rise to move a Resolution, the cause of which is a thing of sadness and of shame, though it is as happily accompanied by some circumstances of a compensating character. On Thursday last, when Her Majesty returned from London to Windsor, before Her Majesty had proceeded some 20 yards from the station, the carriage then going at a foot-pace, a man, who has since been ascertained to be called Roderick Maclean, presented a pistol at the carriage and fired. The bullet was discovered next day some 28 yards away from where the carriage was when it was fired, and in a direct line with the carriage. The man remained with his arm up and with his pistol pointed in the same direction, and he was immediately seized and disarmed. I think it will be better for me not to go into further detail, or to anticipate in any way the facts that will be brought out in the course of the judicial proceedings that will take place. I have said that there were compensating circumstances connected with this degrading, this unmanly, this most disgraceful outrage. In the first place, this deadly attempt turned out to be utterly harmless, either with regard to the person of Her Majesty and those who were with her, or with regard to any of her subjects who were standing by her. In the second place, the sensation that might well be expected in this country appears to have run through the whole civilized world. The respect which has been felt for one whose reign has been so long and so beneficent has been poured out in the warmest feelings from all civilized countries. It is, so far as we know, satisfactory that this attempt, of
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  which it is hard to define the real motives, appears to be absolutely free from anything of a political taint. I remember, as if it were yesterday, that, in 1850, Lord John Russell, a man of singularly calm and collected character, told, me, immediately after an outrage on the Queen, as she was coming from Cambridge House, that he was perfectly astonished at the serene courage Her Majesty exhibited at that moment. Thirty-two years have elapsed since that time; great misfortunes have overtaken Her Majesty, and it is possible that there may be some diminution of physical strength; but that same brave spirit which then filled the gentlest of her sex has remained to this day. The first inquiry which the Queen made was whether anyone had been hurt. Her second feeling was her great appreciation of the courage which her devoted daughter by her side (the Princess Beatrice) had inherited from herself and had equally displayed. It is with the greatest satisfaction, after making what is, in some respects, a painful statement, that I say now on the highest authority—that of the illustrious Prince (the Prince of Wales) on the Cross Benches, who has only immediately left the Queen—that this attempt, which, was sufficient to shake the nerves of the boldest man, yet left Her Majesty with her nerves unshaken, and in possession of the health she had before. The noble Earl concluded by moving his Resolution.
  Moved, "That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty to express our horror and indignation at the reckless and wicked attempt made on Thursday last against Her Majesty's Sacred person, and our heartfelt congratulations to Her Majesty and the country on Her Majesty's happy preservation from danger; and to assure Her Majesty that we make it our earnest prayer to Almighty God that, as He has long preserved to us the blessings that we enjoy under Her Majesty's beneficent government, He will continue to watch over a life so highly prized by Her Majesty's loyal subjects."—[The Earl Granville.)
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, I am sure that in proposing the Resolution which has just been read, Her Majesty's Government have been the faithful interpreters of the feelings of your Lordships' House, and that if some such Address had not been presented on this momentous and almost calamitous occasion. Parliament would not truly

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  have represented the feelings of Her Majesty's subjects. The noble Earl has told us that the causes of this crime are mysterious, and he has wisely abstained from dealing with any possible hypothesis with regard to it; but it is a great satisfaction to know that there is no tinge of political feeling in the crime, which, unfortunately, is analogous to other crimes which this generation has witnessed. The noble Earl did rightly in stating that there is not necessarily any political feeling in these crimes, because we have seen them committed, and that with fatal effect, on the chief Rulers of States so far removed in their political character as the Republic of the United States and the Empire of Russia. Nor, again, are such crimes any indication of resentment felt against the distinguished persons against whom they are levelled; but it is, unhappily, rather those Sovereigns who have shown the deepest care and affection for their people who seem from time to time to be most exposed to occurrences of this kind. They happen, apparently, at particular periods of history. After the Reformation there was a great outburst of such crimes, which passed away, and have only been renewed within the memory of this generation; but the very fact that they are so mysterious, that they are so monstrous, and so totally repugnant to the feelings of every class and section in this country—even the minutest—should be a warning to those who are the guardians of the public peace that we live in times which in this respect are not ordinary times, and that special caution should be taken that terrible occurrences of this kind should not be lightly treated. This is not the moment to enter largely into this subject. We are now invited to express and record our deep horror of the monstrous act which has been done, and our sincere and heartful thankfulness that the attempt to inflict upon this nation so great a calamity has failed. In proportion to the love which this nation feels for Her Majesty, in proportion to the benefits which her long and brilliant reign have conferred on those who have the blessing to be her subjects, in that proportion will their response to such an invitation as this be earnest and heartfelt; and I am sure that in no part of Her Majesty's Dominions, and in no class of her subjects, will the response
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  be so sincere and so warm as from the loyal subjects who constitute your Lordships' House.
  Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente, and a message sent to the Commons to communicate to them the said Address and to desire their concurrence therewith.

CLAIMS OF PEERAGE, &c.

  RE-APPOINTMENT OF SELECT COMMITTEE.
  Moved, "That the Select Committee appointed on the 8th of July 1881 to inquire into the present state of the law as to claims and assumptions of titles of peerage in the United Kingdom and in Scotland and Ireland respectively, and the means of proving and establishing the same; and as to the proceedings and claims to vote at elections of Representative Peers of Scotland and Ireland respectively; and whether it is desirable that the present state of law or practice as to any of the matters aforesaid should he amended; and also to inquire into the present procedure and practice of this House in its Committee of Privileges; and whether such procedure and practice can be amended so as to diminish the delay and expense incident to the determination of claims of peerage and claims to vote at elections of Representative Peers of Scotland and Ireland respectively, be re-appointed."—(The Earl of Galloway.)
  Motion agreed to.
  The Lords following were named of the Committee:

  M. Abercorn

  L. Inchiquin.

  E. Mansfield.

  L. Ker.

  E. Belmore.

  L. Moncrieff.

  E. Redesdale.

  L. O'Hagan.

  V. Sherbrooke.

  L. Watson.

  L. Balfour of Burley.

  L. Brabourne.

  L. Stewart of Garlies.

  The Committee to meet on Tuesday the 21st instant, at Four o'clock, and to appoint their own Chairman.

ARMY (INDIA)—MILITARY DRAFTS.

  MOTION FOR, A RETURN.
  EARL FORTESCUE, in moving for a Return upon the subject, said, that he and other sanitary reformers, years ago, represented to Lord Cardwell the concurrent testimony of the best medical authorities that our soldiers ran increased risk, in such a climate as that of India, if sent out under the age of 20. He had heard lately that a considerable number of lads had been sent out under that age; but he hoped the rumour would prove nearly, if not quite, unfounded. At the same time, it seemed to him highly desirable that the public should be officially informed of the true state of the case.
  Moved for, "Return of the number of non- commissioned officers and soldiers below the age of 20 who have been sent to India from 1st January 1881 to 1st January 1882, giving the designations of the regiments to which they have been respectively supplied."—(The Earl Fortescue.)
  THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, that the present conditions under which drafts were sent to India almost precluded the possibility of soldiers being sent there under the age of 20, or until they had had a year's service in this country. Drummer boys and other lads employed in analogous capacities were, of course, exceptions to the rule. He would have no objection to supply the Return moved for by the noble Earl.
  Motion agreed to.
  Return ordered to be laid before the House.

UNIVERSITIES OF OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE ACT, 1877—THE STATUTES.

  MOTION FOR A PAPER.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY, in whose name the following Notice stood on the Order Paper:—
  "To move that the Statutes laid on the Table of this House by the Oxford and Cambridge University Commissioners during the present Session be printed,"
  said: My Lords, the Motion I have risen to make is that these statutes which have been laid on the Table be forthwith printed. It is provided by Act of Parliament that after they have remained on the Table for 12 weeks they must become law, if no objection is raised to them in either of the Houses of Parliament. These 12 weeks are designed to enable the Legislature to express an opinion upon the subject; but if, instead of being circulated, these statutes are locked up in a drawer, it is obviously difficult for the two Houses to express any views upon them. My object is to try and stimulate the printer into allowing us to have the benefit of these statutes without delay. Noble Lords opposite must not think that I am making any attack upon them. I remember several years ago, when they were last in Office, I used to press for increased activity on the part of the printers, and noble Lords opposite used to protest that they were powerless in the matter. When in Office myself, I
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  also experienced the difficulty of getting Papers printed, and was in my turn pressed to make the printers move fast, and I had to give a similar excuse. On whom rests the responsibility for the printers' delays is one of the mysteries of the British Constitution, and I have brought forward this Motion as an experiment, not knowing whom it will affect. It is possible that if your Lordships express a desire on the subject, the mysterious person, whoever he is, who manages the printing office may be kind enough to take your wishes into account. There is no other point which I wish to raise now, though there are many questions in connection with these statutes which it is desirable that we should discuss. But, of course, there would be considerable difficulty about discussing them before we have seen them.
  Moved, "That the Statutes laid on the Table of this House by the Oxford and Cambridge University Commissioners during the present Session be forthwith printed."—[The Marquess of Salisbury.)
  THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURYsaid, that the circumstances under which these statutes appeared before their Lordships were rather peculiar. The Commission appointed to draw up the statutes and lay them before Parliament had ceased to exist; and though provision was made for the work to go on, notwithstanding the termination of the labours of the Commissioners, some inconvenience had arisen from the fact that the Commission had ended before the completion of the work intrusted to it. If the Privy Council did not agree with the statutes made by the Commissioners, they had power to send them back for alteration so long as the Commission continued in existence; but as things stood now, the Commission having ceased to exist, it was all the more incumbent upon Parliament to examine the statutes, in case it should be found that any of their provisions were not quite in accordance with the principles upon which the Act instituting the Commission was originally based. There were two Acts which affected the questions which he wished their Lordships to consider. They were the University Tests Act and the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge Commission Act. The first of these Acts very carefully provided that instruction should be given

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  in religion to members of the Church of England, according to their own views, and also that the chapel services should be duly maintained as in former times in the various Colleges. A good deal of dissatisfaction had been caused throughout the country by an apprehension that the provisions of this Act had not in all cases been complied with by the Commissioners in drawing up the statutes which were now recommended to their Lordships for acceptance. He had received a Petition very numerously signed by parents and other persons interested in the welfare of the young men who frequented the University of Oxford, pointing out that the provisions of the Tests Act had been practically disregarded. He wished especially to call attention to the statutes of one particular College, in the case of which it could hardly be contended that the directions contained in the Tests Act had been properly complied with. He alluded to Lincoln College. This College had, until a recent period, been a Society, the Fellows of which were all required to take Holy Orders within a certain time after their election. The Tests Act had, of course, altered the character of that College, as it had that of other Colleges; but, at the same time, it had provided that religious instruction should be imparted to members of the Church of England, and that the chapel services should be properly maintained. Now, the arrangements suggested by the new statutes in connection with this College were such that none of its members need be clergymen of the Church of England; and, therefore, if the chapel services were to be maintained, it might soon become necessary that they should be maintained by a person brought in ab extra, who would not be a member of the Governing Body of the College, and who would be in the very subordinate position of a chaplain hired for the purpose of reading the services. The arrangements made in the new statutes for the appointment of such a chaplain seemed to him to be of an extraordinary character. Two persons were to be appointed, in the event of there being no qualified member of the College willing to accept the office; and these two persons were to receive between them the munificent sum of £100, being liable to dismissal from year to year. That could scarcely be called
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  maintaining the chapel services in the manner in which they were maintained before the passing of the Tests Act. Nothing could be more harmful to the young men than their seeing these services neglected by the ruling Bodies of the Colleges, the chaplain receiving as their deputy a salary certainly not equal to that of the College butler. He had an acquaintance with the University extending over 50 years. When he first went there the prevailing opinions were the old-fashioned opinions of the Church of England; but those principles afterwards became less popular than they were in his earlier clays. No doubt, a good deal of improvement had resulted from the subsequent change of opinion, there having in the next generation been a very strong clerical party, differing from that which had preceded it, but full of zeal for religion. But now, whether the fact was due to the perverse-ness of human nature or to some other cause, it was, unfortunately, true that a totally opposite state of things existed in the greater part of the University. Nothing could be more unwise than that the predominant opinions of any one generation on the subject of the instruction of the young men in our great Universities should be stereotyped for ever. If it was true that opinions by no means popular throughout England, though, very popular in the neighbouring country of France, which regarded clericalism as the greatest of all evils, and where clericalism was sometimes confounded with Christianity itself—if it was true that such opinions were at all prevalent in the Universities—nothing could be more unwise than that the Legislature should stereotype for all time a view of education which the nation did not endorse, and which must lead to a separation between the religious sentiments of the country at large and those of the great Universities to which they intrusted their sons. For these reasons he held that the utmost care should be taken in connection with these statutes; and he saw no other mode in which such care could be exercised than by Parliament performing laboriously and honestly the duty of examining these statutes. For the fulfilment of that duty they had only eight weeks left to them. He feared without careful attention infinite mischief might be done—the Universities might cease to occupy

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  the great place they had always held in this country; and, secondly, there would be the injury to the young men themselves, "who would be subjected to unfortunate influences. Besides, there would be this fresh danger, which he considered a very real one—that religious men throughout the country would determine that they would not submit to the present state of things, and that, therefore, they would found smaller societies, and thus a narrow system of teaching would spring up in the place of the wide and wise system which had hitherto existed in the Universities. He therefore hoped that the House would turn its attention to the statutes, and not merely have them placed on the Table as a matter of form.
  EARL SPENCERsaid, he did not rise to follow the remarks of the most rev. Prelate (the Archbishop of Canterbury). He joined with him in the view that these statutes were of the greatest importance; but, at the same time, he could have wished that the most rev. Prelate had waited until the statutes were in their Lordships' hands before discussing, and to some extent criticizing them. If the regular discussion, which no doubt would take place, were forestalled, a prejudice might be raised against the statutes before any opportunity was given to the Commissioners, or those who represented them, to state their views. With regard to the printers, he believed what was said by the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Salisbury) was not quite correct. When Papers were presented by Command they were printed at once; but when to be printed according to statute, it was not done unless some of their Lordships made a Motion to that effect. The initiative did not rest with the Government. A Motion having been made, however, the statutes would be printed forthwith, accordingly, and circulated, if it was the pleasure of the House.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, the word "forthwith" had been accidentally omitted at the end of his Motion.
  Motion agreed to.
  House adjourned at five minutes to Six o'clock during pleasure.
  House resumed at five minutes past Eight o'clock.
  The Lord THURLOW—Chosen Speaker in the absence of the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Commissioner.

  ATTEMPT UPON THE LIFE OF HER MAJESTY.
  Message from the Commons that they have agreed to the Address and have filled up the blank with the words ("and Commons"): Ordered, That the Lord Steward do wait upon Her Majesty humbly to know what time Her Majesty will please to appoint to be attended with the said Address.
  House adjourned at a quarter past Eight o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.