§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI wish to ask the noble Earl the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a Question, of which I gave him private Notice yesterday. Owing to circumstances over which the noble Earl had no control, he was unable to be present, and I now beg to ask him, Whether Her Majesty's Government propose to take part in a Conference, to be held at Constantinople, without the consent of the Sultan; and, whether there is any precedent for such a step?
§ EARL GRANVILLEMy Lords, I hope the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Salisbury), who was good enough to give me Notice of the first part of the Question yesterday, will acquit me of any want of courtesy on my part, or on the part of my noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley), in not answering it yesterday. The fact was, I was attending Her Majesty at Windsor, and the Notice of the noble Marquess arrived after I left London, otherwise I should certainly have requested my noble Friend to answer the Question. With regard to it, I have now to state that the Sultan has objected to the Conference at Constantinople, but that the Governments of this country, of France and Germany, Italy and Russia, are all agreed to continue to meet at the Conference; and although Austria has not yet signified her intention to do so, in consequence of the objections of the Sultan, still I have reason to believe that she is not likely to separate herself from the other Powers. I must add, with regard to the Conference being held at Constantinople, that it is not intended as a mark or point of disrespect to the due rights of the Sultan of Turkey.
§ THE MARQUESS of SALISBURYOf course, my Lords, it is very easy to say that this Conference is not intended as a mark of any want of respect towards the due rights of the Sultan; but it is hardly possible to inflict a more flagrant affront upon the rights of the Sultan. The Sultan of Turkey was admitted by the Treaty of Paris to the Concert of Europe, and is entitled to all the marks of respect, and to the benefit of all international traditions which affect the other Signatories to the Treaty. There is no doubt that to assemble a Conference at the capital of the Sultan to deal with the subjects of that Sultan, against his will, is about as flagrant an interference with his independence as it is possible to conceive. We have the authority of the Prime Minister for saying that no difference should be made between weak Powers and strong Powers; what, therefore, is right for the weak, is right for the strong. What should we think if Musurus Pasha were to summon a Conference at London, against the wish of the Queen, to consider the present condition of Ireland? I think it is not only an indecorous and unfair proceeding to interfere with a Power which has both 169 historical and Treaty rights to our consideration, but it is also, in the present state of circumstances, exceedingly imprudent. On what Power, or what assistance, do you depend for attaining the objects of your policy in the difficult problem that lies before you? For no one can doubt that there are problems of exceeding difficulty. You have engaged to uphold the present Viceroy; you have engaged to remove Arabi Pasha from power; you have engaged to restore the status quo ante; and unless you do these things, the English name will be a laughing-stock throughout the whole of the East, from Egypt to Japan; and the ridicule which you will bring down upon your country will tell with fearful effect, not only on the commercial interests of its capitalists and merchants, but on the lives of its subjects. This is the difficulty of the problem you have to deal with, and your difficulty arises from the fact that you have to meet the strong feeling of Mohammedans against the interposition of Christian Powers. So far as we can trace any meaning in this movement which has crossed our path, it is part of the great Pan-Islamic revival of which we have heard so much. If that is the case—if it is a Mohammedan against a Christian movement—you are taking the most unwise step in the world in inflicting public affront on the head of the Mohammedan religion. That will be the case supposing your European Conference goes smoothly, and if you enjoy all the moral and material resources which it will place at your disposal. But supposing there is a hitch in it, and supposing you have to take sides, and supposing that greater difficulties than you now contemplate arise, it will be the Sultan, and the Sultan alone, who can extricate you from those difficulties. My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are taking a course for which there is no precedent, which sins grievously against International Law, and which, in the grave and critical circumstances of the country, is the most imprudent course they can adopt.
§ EARL GRANVILLEMy Lords, the noble Marquess opposite (the Marquess of Salisbury) the other day announced that, being out of Office, no responsibility attached to him; about a week ago the noble Marquess further admitted that he thought it would be exceedingly inconvenient to discuss these matters in 170 the present state of affairs. The noble Marquess has, however, thought fit, in that utter want of responsibility that attaches to him, but which I believe to be of the greatest possible importance, now to take this course. He first asks a Question in the simplest manner, and requests an answer from me, or from one of my noble Colleagues; and then, contrary to the doctrine the noble and learned Lord the late Lord Chancellor laid down, that you should not discuss a Question upon an answer—though I differ from him—he goes into the whole matter like this, where all the Powers of Europe are agreed, for within the time that has elapsed since my first answer I hear that Austria has agreed with the other Powers, and has entered into the Conference. He thinks it is to the advantage of the practical settlement of this question, when this Conference is being settled, and about to sit, to get up in this House and seek to damage it as much as possible, and to excite the Sultan of Turkey, against his own interests, to oppose the recommendations that may be made by the Conference. My Lords, I really will not argue the case with the noble Marquess.