QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. (Hansard, 8 June 1882)

§ THE EARL OF RAVENSWORTH
My Lords, I rise for the purpose of putting a Question to my noble Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, of which I have given Notice, as to the position of the combined Fleet in the harbour of Alexandria; and I do so because I think I shall not be accused of exaggeration if I describe that position as one of anxiety, if it be not critical. The Government have been—although I do not complain of them on that score—not unnaturally somewhat reticent on the subject, and whatever in-formation has reached us from their lips has not on all occasions been strictly accurate. Only a very few days ago a Question was addressed to the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Sir Charles W. Dilke) in "another place," and in his reply he stated that the earthworks, of which we have heard something, were not armed. Only the day before yesterday, however, he took occasion materially to correct that statement, because it appeared, I think, from his answer, that at the very time when he was replying to his first questioner in the House of Commons, the forts were in the course of being armed. But, although we have not got much information from Her Majesty's Ministers, the telegraph wires have not been at all silent on this subject; and I am bound to say that in the last day or two information of a disquieting character has reached us nearly every day. Now, my Lords, the harbour of Alexandria presents some peculiar features. The roadstead outside the entrance is open and exposed, especially in a north-west wind, when even ordinary steamers do not venture to go in, and the entrance to the harbour, as is well known, is narrow 461 and not particularly deep. I believe I am right—and if I am wrong I shall, no doubt, be corrected—I believe I am right in saying that the extreme depth is 24 feet 8 inches. I need not remind your Lordships that no first-class ironclad fighting ship of the present day could enter that harbour. I apprehend that those powerful vessels in the Mediterranean Fleet—the Alexandra, the Inflexible, the Superb, and the Temeraire — could not enter the harbour. I doubt even whether the Monarch could do so, unless she was lightened of her coals, and the only vessel of any size which can be of use would be the Invincible, which is at present inside the harbour. The harbour itself, as I understand it, is protected by a succession or chain of forts which crown the heights above the town, and lie in a sort of semi-circle; and the intervening spaces between the forts and the shore are occupied, in some cases, by very sumptuous residences, almost palaces. These are closely situated, in some instances, and a great number of them are occupied, not by Egyptian subjects at all, but by wealthy foreigners, Europeans, and others engaged in trade and other avocations; and I apprehend that in event—the untoward event—of the Fleet being compelled to reply to the fire of the forts, these residences would be in a very dangerous position, and would probably be destroyed. But there is more than this, for I have alluded to certain earthworks. When Her Majesty's Government decided not long ago on despatching the Fleet to Alexandria, I apprehend, and, indeed, it was said that one great motive was to overawe the mutinous soldiery and their commander by the presence of the Fleet. But it has not appeared to have had that effect, for the action of Her Majesty's Government was immediately responded to by a counter-demonstration—namely, the erection of earthworks, on which the soldiery have been employed for some days. No doubt some of these works were already armed; but they naturally attracted the notice of the British Admiral, and he at once telegraphed to Constantinople to protest against their construction.

§ THE EARL OF NORTHBROOK
No, no!

§ THE EARL OF RAVENSWORTH
I may, then, take it that the statement is not correct, But is it not true that 462 a prompt and immediate message was sent from Constantinople to stop the construction of the works? That is true. An immediate and peremptory message came at once from the Sultan to stop the construction of the earth works; and now comes a piece of information which is of a remarkable character, and I must call particular attention to it. We are informed that upon the receipt by the Khedive of the message of the Sultan, it was transmitted to Arabi Pasha, a council of officers was summoned, and the reply sent by Arabi is reported to be— I have directed the construction of these works as a necessary step to calm the irritation and excitement created in the minds of the nation by the presence of the Fleets. They are necessary repairs only; but in obedience to my Sovereign's command, I will immediately order the suspension of these defensive works; but I expect the removal of the Fleets. Now, the natural and only inference to be drawn from this is, that that readiness to suspend the works was conditional; and, if the conditions were not agreed to, no doubt the works will continue to be constructed. I do not think that is an unfair assumption; and I need not remind your Lordships that everybody knows perfectly well that Arabi Pasha is master of the situation. He has at his disposal the only armed force in Egypt at this moment, and it appears to me impossible for any statesman to say from day to day what steps he will take, or to what purpose, pacific or warlike, he will not apply those troops. I wish to put this Question to Her Majesty's Government, because I think I may fairly describe the position of our Fleet as an anxious and critical one. I have been exceedingly careful to abstain from mixing up political matters with the Question, which only relates to matters of fact, and those matters of fact ought to be well known to the Government, because they are patent to every human being in Alexandria. I do not ask these Questions for the purpose of embarrassing the Government in the slightest degree. It would be wrong, unfair, and unpatriotic to interfere with the Government in the conduct of difficult and delicate negotiations; but I think the English people are entitled to know at least as much of these affairs as the people of Alexandria. Therefore, it is in the hope that the Government may be able to give a 463 satisfactory reply, which will do something to reassure the anxiety which exists, that I ask the following Questions —I wish to know, first of all, precisely where the Fleet is lying? Is it lying in the Old Harbour, or in that which is known as the New Harbour—a large space of water lying to the South-East of the Old Harbour, and which has been, during recent years, improved and deepened, and is now shown on the Admiralty Chart as the New Harbour? I would then like to know whether the old forts, which I call old in contradistinction to the new earthworks, are fully and effectually armed; and whether they command the whole of the harbour, including the new portion? Then, I would like also to ask whether it is true, as has been stated, that when the order from the Sultan arrived, and was conveyed to Arabi Pasha, it was too late, because the earthworks and their batteries were complete? Lastly, I should like to know whether the Government are in possession of information at this moment as to the situation and the power of the defences and fortifications of Alexandria, sufficient to enable the naval and military authorities of this country to judge whether, in the event of hostilities occurring, the position of the Fleet would be tenable?

§ THE EARL OF NORTHBROOK
My Lords, the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Ravensworth) has asked me three or four Questions in one, regarding Her Majesty's Fleet at Alexandria, and in doing so has made one or two observations on which I may say a few words. In the first place, he refers to answers given by my hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in the House of Commons (Sir Charles W. Dilke), and he seems to challenge the accuracy of the answers given by him. At any rate, he so interprets his words as to challenge their accuracy. As no Notice has been given me on that subject, I am not prepared to go into the question; but, so far as I can understand the statement of the noble Earl, my hon. Friend answered one day a question of fact as it was on that day, and on another day answered in another way, simply because since he spoke the circumstances had changed. This is only another instance of what so often happens in consequence of Questions being put without Notice refer- 464 ring to what takes place in the other House, as to which it is impossible to give a complete answer in your Lordships' House. Then the noble Earl went into the question of the draught of water of Her Majesty's ships on the Mediterranean Station, and I may say on that point that two of them—the Invincible and the Monarch —are actually in the harbour of Alexandria, so that, at all events as to them, there is no question at all as to their being able to enter. But I must ask the noble Earl to allow me to say, with regard to the draught of water of the ships and the depth of the harbour, that it is obviously inconvenient to enter into such details. The noble Earl seems to feel some anxiety as to the safety of the Fleet, and he used the term that the Fleet was in an anxious if not a critical position. He then goes on to ask Questions with respect to the armament of the forts and the completion of the earthworks; and wants to know whether the Government are in possession of information to enable us to assure your Lordships of the safety of the Fleet. As to the details of the armament of the forts and the earthworks, I think the most satisfactory answer I can give is that without entering into further details, I am able to assure your Lordships that Her Majesty's Government have a sufficient knowledge of the fortifications of Alexandria and the position of the earthworks such as to cause us not to feel the slightest anxiety or apprehension with regard to the safety of the Fleet.