Lords Sitting of 20 May 1881

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Local Government Provisional Orders (Poor Law) (No. 2)* (83).
Second Reading—Bridges (South Wales)* (83). Committee—Report—Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (Clay Lane)* (69).
Report—Inelosure Provisional Orders (Scotton and Ferry Common)* (64); Regulation Provisional Order (Langbar Moor), now Commons Regulation Provisional Order (Langbar Moor)* (63); Regulation Provisional Order (Beamsley Moor), now Commons Regulation Provisional Order (Beamsley Moor)* (62); Metropolitan Commons Supplemental* (65); Inclosure Provisional Order (Wibsey Slack and Low Moor Commons)* (71).

AFFAIRS OF TUNIS.—QUESTION.
EARL DE LA WARRasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs-Whether there was any further correspondence relative to the affairs of Tunis about the date of the first despatch already communicated to the House (July, 1878), which it would be convenient for him (Earl Granville) to produce?
EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, no.

ARMY ORGANIZATION—THE NEW UNIFORMS.
OBSERVATIONS. QUESTION.
LORD WAVENEYsaid, their Lordships were aware that among the other changes of uniform which under a General Order were directed to be made was that the uniform of the Militia Artillery was to be assimilated to the uniform of the Royal Artillery. Another change which the Militia had to make was in the embroidery, which was to be gold, instead of silver, as hitherto. The Militia was a Force which had its own objects and its own duties, and he did not think that the attempts at assimilating it with the Regular Army were well devised. The change from silver to gold was not popular with the Militia officers; but the point to which he wished to draw attention was the uncertainty in which commanding officers were at present left as to uniforms. The equipment of a soldier, like his pay, was a part of his covenant, and he should have it. He
934
begged to ask the Under Secretary of State for War (1). When the dress regulations for officers of Militia would be issued, and what uniforms were to be worn in the interim; and (2). When the Military equipment of the Militia was to be completed by the issue of helmets, regard being had to the approaching training season?
THE EARL OF LONGFORDobserved, that others besides Militia officers were affected by capricious changes of uniform. He knew of one general officer who, being uncertain as to the uniform which he was at present expected to wear at Court, sent his own to an Army tailor, who made the necessary alterations for five guineas; but it cost another officer 30 guineas to have his rendered conformable to the most recent requirements. If changes in uniform were necessary and well considered for the advantage of the Service, by all means let them be carried out; but if those changes were introduced without absolute necessity, it was hardly fair to impose on officers the expense which such alterations must always involve.
VISCOUNT HARDINGEasked, Whether the Under Secretary of State for War could state how soon after the 1st of July officers of territorial regiments would be required to provide themselves with new uniforms? He believed that a certain amount of compensation would be paid to the officers of those regiments; but as the amount must vary according to circumstances, he supposed the Under Secretary could not say what it would amount to.
THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, that the instructions on the subject of the noble Viscount's Question would be found in paragraphs 15 and 16 of the General Order. Where officers already in a regiment had to provide an entire change of uniform, they would have until the 1st of April, 1882, to do so, except in the case of the 73rd, which would adopt its new uniform on July 1 of this year. Officers joining any of these regiments in the interval would only be requested to appear in undress uniform. As regards facings and badges, the changes would come into operation on the 1st of July next; officers joining on and after that date must adopt the new uniform. Officers now in the regiments would only have to get new uniforms as required to replace their old ones. His right hon. Friend

935
the Secretary of State for War had announced that it was his intention to give some pecuniary assistance to officers in the regiments which were to be converted into Rifles or kilted regiments—the amount of this assistance had not yet been fixed; but it would not be the same in all cases. With reference to what had been said by the noble Lord (Lord Waveney), he must remark that the change in the Militia from silver lace to gold had been recommended very strongly by a Committee on which there were some distinguished Militia officers. On the whole, he believed that change would be very popular with the Militia, and would take effect on the 1st of July. When the Militia required new uniforms, they would replace those which they at present wore with those of the battalions with which they were to be incorporated. As some time must necessarily elapse before all the arrangements in reference to the new uniforms could be completed, officers joining Militia regiments in the interval would only be required to provide themselves with undress uniform until then. With regard to the second Question, it was not intended in the present year, any more than in former years, to issue helmets for the use of the Militia.
THE EARL OF GALLOWAYwished to know, Whether, in the case of the Royal Scots Fusiliers—which would be converted from a Lowland to a Highland regiment—the uniform would be entirely changed? He also asked what was the intention of the authorities as to the Militia regiment which was to be affiliated—the 21st Regiment? He did not think the noble Earl (the Earl of Morley) was well informed when he said the change would be popular with the Militia. The Militia officers would not approve of having to wear gold lace; and the result would be that for the next 15 years a great many Militia regiments would remain in a piebald state, some of the officers wearing gold and some silver lace.
THE EARL OF MORLEYasked that the Question should be put again privately, as he was not prepared to make a statement with regard to the Scots Fusiliers offhand. He might say, however, he did not know of any exception to the general Regulation being made in favour of that regiment. There
936
would be no more helmets issued than usual.
LORD WAVENEYasked, Whether, as the change from silver to gold was not to be made before the 1st of July, he would be guilty of any breach of regulation if he instructed the officers under his command, who were without uniform, to provide themselves with new uniforms in accordance with the new Regulation before the date mentioned?
THE EARL OF MORLEYthought it would be better for them to wait till the 1st of July.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.