Lords Sitting of 21 March 1881

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Sea Fisheries (Clam and Bait Beds)* (53). Second Reading—Local Government Provisional Orders (Godalming, &c.)* (48).
Royal Assent—Peace Preservation (Ireland) [44 Viet. c. 5].

AFGHANISTAN (MILITARY EXPENDITURE)—CANDAHAR.—STATEMEN
VISCOUNT ENFIELD: With your Lordships' permission I wish to make a short statement on two matters connected with Indian affairs. First, in laying on the Table of your Lordships' House the further Correspondence relating to the Estimates for the Afghan War. It will be in your Lordships' recollection that on the 8th of March my noble Friend behind me (Lord Waveney) asked me a Question on this latter subject, and that in reply I stated that further Papers would be laid on the Table in a few days; but I believed they would show no material difference as to the Estimates from those laid before Parliament in the month of January. That very afternoon a telegram was received from the Viceroy mentioning that the Estimate would be increased. It has been included in the Papers now presented. The revised figures now show an estimated expenditure, to the 31st of May 1881, as follows:—Military operations, 1,862 lakhs of rupees (at ls. 8d. the rupee, £15,516,000); Frontier railways, 487 lakhs of rupees (£4,058,000); total, £19,574,000.
A further statement, which I crave permission to lay before the House, is on the subject of Candahar. The noble Earl, the late Prime Minister, asked a Question on Friday evening of my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, who in reply stated that he thought he would be able to make a statement on the subject early this week; and my noble Friend the Secretary of State for India is most anxious that your Lordships should be fully informed on the subject. Immediately after the decision had been taken not permanently to occupy Candahar, communications were opened with Ameer
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Abdurrahman, informing him of the intention of the Government to re-consider the arrangements which had been made for the Government of Southern Afghanistan, and expressing the desire of the Viceroy to act in the matter in consultation and in concert with him. There was great delay in the transmission of this letter to Cabul, and the Ameer's reply was also detained on the road. The Ameer, however, expressed his gratitude to the British Government, and his strong desire for a personal interview with the Viceroy to confer upon the affairs of Afghanistan; but this, on account of the Viceroy's illness and for other reasons, was deemed at the time impossible. He, however, sent an Envoy to Calcutta, to confer principally on Cabul affairs, who had several interviews with the Viceroy, and has returned to Cabul. In the meantime, the Viceroy had intimated to Abdurrahman that the British Government would contemplate with satisfaction the restoration of Candahar to the dominions of Afghanistan, and would agree to the extension of This Highness's authority over that Province, recognizing his Government when established, and generally assisting him, as they did at Cabul, by a limited material help. The Ameer has made the purport of the Viceroy's letter generally known at Cabul, and has accepted the offer. The Viceroy has since informed Abdurrahman that it was necessary that the Cabul troops, with a Governor authorized to receive charge from British officers, should reach Candahar early in April. The Ameer replied that he was desirous of taking charge of Candahar at once; that his troops were all ready, his carriage being his principal difficulty, and that he hoped his forces would reach Candahar about the time named. The latest information received from the Viceroy is to the effect that the Cabul troops have started, or will shortly start, from Cabul, and will reach Candahar early in April; and that all arrangements for our withdrawal are completed. At the same time, measures have been taken at Candahar in preparation for the withdrawal of the British troops, and several leading Sirdars have written to the Ameer tendering their allegiance. That is all the information which the Secretary of State thinks it possible to give at the present time. The situation is, as your Lordships' will

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see, a somewhat critical one; and to enter into further details would not add much to the information of your Lordships, while it might do some harm in Afghanistan. The Correspondence is in an extremely incomplete form, the more so as, by some accident or oversight, a great part of the despatches which ought to have been received by the last two mails has not reached the India Office. Among these are the Minutes of Members of Council, which were expected to have been received three weeks, or at latest a fortnight, since, but which are still wanting.
LORD WAVENEYwas surprised to hear that Her Majesty's Government proposed to take that dangerous course, which had already cost us two armies and two Envoys, and which was likely once more to lead us into difficulties. The Ameer of Cabul, though we might give him every credit for good faith, was in the hands of his turbulent nobles and the people of Cabul. He (Lord Waveney) was not prepared at present to take exception to the course proposed by the Government; but on a future occasion he might consider it necessary to take the sense of the House with regard to it.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLL: I do not think this is an occasion for discussing this matter, and I should not have risen but for the remark of my noble Friend behind me (Lord Waveney). In regard to that I have only to remind your Lordships that the cause of the murder of our Envoys and the destruction of our armies has not been the coming out of Afghanistan, but the going into it.

SOUTH GARSTON DOCK AND RAILWAY BILL.—MOTION.
EARL CADOGAN EARL CADOGAN moved—
"That the order made on Thursday the 3rd instant 'that the Bill be not further proceeded with during the present Seesion' be discharged and the Bill re-committed to the same Select Committee for the purpose of considering the question of awarding costs to the petitioners who appeared before the Committee."
The noble Earl said, that he made the Motion as Chairman of the Select Committee, the Bill having been withdrawn without notice to that body, or to the petitioners who had appeared before the Committee as opponents of the measure. He, however, left their Lordships to
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deal with the matter as they might think fit.
THE MARQUESS OF HUNTLYsaid, he had received a Petition signed by 72 leading merchants of Liverpool requesting that the Bill should be re-committed on its merits.
THE EARL OF REDESDALE (CHAIRMAN of COMMITTEES)thought the Motion should be agreed to as a means of showing promoters of Bills that they could not evade their responsibility for costs by withdrawing their Bills.
EARL CAIRNSpointed out that there was a technical difficulty in the way of dealing with the Motion in consequence of the course taken by the promoters of the Bill.
THE LORD CHANCELLORdid not see how their Lordships could assume an independent jurisdiction as to costs.
EARL CADOGAN EARL CADOGAN moved that the further consideration of the Resolution be adjourned.
Motion agreed to.
Further debate upon the said motion adjourned till To-morrow.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.