ADDRESS FOR RETURNS. (Hansard, 11 March 1881)

§ VISCOUNT BURY
rose to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, What will be the number of battalions abroad beyond the normal number contemplated by the localization scheme when the intended re-inforcement of six regiments has been despatched to South Africa; and to move— That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for Return (similar to No. 70 of 1879) of all non-commissioned officers and privates of each battalion under orders for or sent to South Africa since the 1st of January of the present year, as they embarked, showing ages, length of service, and number who have not completed their drill and musketry instruction; also similar Returns of all drafts to complete other battalions than those sent from home stations; also number drawn to complete for service for other than their own brigades in tabular form similar to that of the above-named Return. It was essential that this information should be laid before the House to enable their Lordships to consider Mr. Childers' proposal to modify Lord Cardwell's scheme, which was drawn up without regard to our small wars, of which there had been no fewer than 35 during the last 40 years. At the General Election, complaint was made of the reticence of the late Government, and it had been promised that when the present Government came into Office we were to live in the light of publicity. He trusted, therefore, that Her Majesty's Government would not refuse to give any information on this subject which would not be of service to the enemy.

THE EARL OF MORLEY
assured their Lordships that there was every desire on the part of the Government to give the fullest possible information as regarded the new re-organization scheme and the general state of the Army at present. But when he said that, he should also express a hope that the noble Lord would not press for the Returns, which it would be contrary to public policy to produce, in face of the war in which we were now engaged. The Boers had all the details of our movements from day to day sent to them, and he could not see how the information which the Returns would supply could be kept from them. In saying this he must also be allowed to remark that it was not without surprise that he heard the noble Lord, who had held an important and responsible position in a former Government, put such a Question. He could not understand why the Government, in satisfying the perhaps laudable curiosity of the noble Lord, should also gratify the less innocent curiosity of the Boer leaders, who would, without doubt, like to have information as to the strength and equipment of the forces sent out to South Africa. He was anxious, however, to give broadly some information which would be satisfactory to their Lordships. The number of battalions abroad beyond the normal number contemplated by the localization scheme when the intended re-inforcement of six regiments had been despatched to South Africa was fixed at 10, and since the 1st of January an order had been issued that no soldiers should be allowed to embark who had not been two years in the Army. All regiments and drafts sent abroad had been drawn either from the linked battalions, the depôts, or volunteers; and of these, except in a few cases, no soldier had been allowed to pass who had not completed two years' musketry instruction. With regard to Viscount Cardwell's scheme, it was too much forgotten sometimes that that 796 scheme had been subjected to a very considerable strain within the last few years, and that it had, to a considerable extent, borne the strain without any addition to the establishment. Having given this explanation, he could only repeat that in the view of Her Majesty's Government it would not be consistent with the public interest to enter into further detail, or to grant the Returns for which the noble Viscount asked.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBROOK
would advise his noble Friend not to persist in his Motion for the Returns, inasmuch as he had been told that to grant them would be contrary to public policy, although the figures for which his noble Friend asked were practically to be found in Blue Books which had been already laid before Parliament, and arguments deduced from them might fairly be used in any future discussion.

§ VISCOUNT BURY
said, of course, he would not press the Motion for the Returns after what had been said.