Lords Sitting of 21 July 1881

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Committee—Report—Universities (Scotland) Registration of Parliamentary Voters, &c.* (130).
Report—Supreme Court of Judicature (171).
Third Reading—Wild Birds Protection Act, 1880, Amendment* (166); Burial Grounds (Scotland) Act (1855) Amendment* (131), and passed.

SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE BILL.—(No. 147.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE BILL.—(No. 147.)

  REPORT.
  Amendments reported (according to order).
  Clause 21 (Patronage under 42 & 43 Vic. c. 78).
  EARL CAIRNSsaid, this clause provided for certain patronage which up to this time had been exercised by the Lord Chief Justice of England, the Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, the Chief Baron of the Exchequer, and the Master
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  of the Rolls. Two of these offices were now extinct, and it became necessary that some provision should be made for the exercise of the patronage. Originally the Bill provided that it should be exercised alternately by the Lord Chancellor, the Lord Chief Justice of England, and the Master of the Rolls. The noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack had since proposed to strike out of that triumvirate the name of the Lord Chancellor, in order to substitute that of the senior Puisne Judge of the Queen's Bench Division. He would now ask their Lordships to restore the clause to its original form. He did not think his noble and learned Friend's reasons for the change he had introduced were sufficient. If the patronage were placed in the hands of the Lord Chancellor, the Lord Chancellor would exercise his responsibility directly. If it were placed with the Chief Justice of England and the Master of the Rolls, the former was the head of a great Division of the Court, and the latter was, for the future, to be the President of the Court of Appeal, and with both of these offices there would be a proper degree of responsibility. All who held these offices would exercise the patronage, not as individuals, but as Heads and Presidents of important Courts. But if the person who happened to be the senior Puisne Judge, for the time being, of the Queen's Bench Division were made one of the three Judges who were to exercise patronage, he was not responsible to Parliament, and had not the responsibility which attached to the Presidents of the Court, and there was thus a great danger of the idea growing up that the patronage was the private patronage of the person who happened to be the senior Puisne Judge of the Queen's Bench Division for the time being. He ventured to say also that the proposal was an altogether novel one. He therefore moved that the words "the Lord Chancellor" be inserted before "the Lord Chief Justice of England."
  Moved, in page 7, line 11, before ("the Lord Chief Justice of England"), to insert the words ("the Lord Chancellor"); in line 11, after ("England"), insert ("and"); and in line 12, after ("Rolls"), leave out ("and the senior Puisne Judge for the time being of the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court of Justice").—(The Earl Cairns.)
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that the subject of this clause had given

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  him a great deal of embarrassment, and he had found it difficult to settle it in a thoroughly satisfactory manner. His view was that as the Lord Chancellor had not hitherto had any of this patronage, and as it formerly belonged to the chiefs of the two extinct Offices, the balance should be maintained as far as possible between the two Divisions of the Courts, and therefore he inserted the "senior Puisne Judge" of the Queen's Bench Division. He did not wish to add to the duties of the Office which he held, and the exercise of patronage was not always the easiest or most agreeable task. There would be 18 masters and about 80 clerks chiefly occupied in the Queen's Bench Division, and it was not necessary that the Lord Chancellor should have any share in their appointment. He himself would prefer that the clause should remain as it was. He did not deny that it was somewhat anomalous to take a Puisne Judge by seniority, but they might be sure that the duty would be exercised with a sufficient sense of responsibility. He must, however, leave it to their Lordships to decide what particular course they would adopt. He was anxious to maintain, as far as he could, the balance of patronage between the two Divisions of the High Court of Judicature.
  LORD DENMANsaid, he wished to point out that, certain Offices having been abolished, the Lord Chancellor, if the Amendment were carried, would be able to exercise considerably more patronage than he had hitherto possessed. He (Lord Denman) objected to the Amendment of the noble and learned Earl on that ground.
  On question? Their Lordships divided:—Contents 41; Not-Contents 36: Majority 5.

  CONTENTS.

  Northumberland, D.

  Manvers, E.

  Richmond, D.

  Nelson, E.

  Somerset, D.

  Onslow, E.

  Redesdale, E.

  Amherst, E.

  Sondes, E.

  Bandon, E.

  Stanhope, E.

  Bathurst, E.

  Wharncliffe, E.

  Beauchamp, E.

  Bradford, E.

  Clancarty, V. (E. Clancarty.)

  Cairns, E.

  Carnarvon, E.

  Hawarden, V. [Teller.]

  De La Warr, E.

  Melville, V.

  Denbigh, E.

  Lathom, E. [Teller.]

  Balfour of Burleigh, L.

  Leven and Melville, E.

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  Clonbrock, L.

  Norton, L.

  Colchester, L.

  Penrhyn, L.

  Colville of Culross, L.

  Raglan, L.

  Ellenborough, L.

  Shute, L. (V. Barrington.)

  Foxford, L. (E. Limerick.)

  Stanley of Alderley, L.

  Howard de Walden, L.

  Strathspey, L. (E. Seafield.)

  Kenlis, L. (M. Headfort.)

  Walsingham, L.

  Leconfield, L.

  Watson, L.

  NOT-CONTENTS

  Selborne, L. (L. Chancellor.)

  Carysfort, L. (E. Carysfort.)

  Churchill, L.

  Camperdown, E.

  Clifford of Chudleigh, L.

  Dartrey, E.

  Derby, E.

  Denman, L.

  Innes, E. (D. Roxburghe.)

  Kenmare, L. (E. Kenmare.)

  Minto, E.

  Kenry, L. (E. Dunraven and Mount-Earl.)

  Morley, E.

  Northbrook, E.

  Monson, L. [Teller.]

  Spencer, E.

  Mostyn, L.

  Sydney, E.

  O'Hagan, L.

  Ramsay, L. (E. Dalhousie.)

  Eversley, V.

  Powerscourt, V.

  Ribblesdale, L.

  Rosebery, L. (E. Rosebery.)

  Aberdare, L.

  Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery.) [Teller.]

  Strafford, L. (V. Enfield.)

  Brabourne, L.

  Stratheden and Campbell, L.

  Breadalbane, L. (E. Breadalbane.)

  Sudeley, L.

  Calthorpe, L.

  Waveney, L.

  Carlingford, L.

  Wrottesley, L.

  Carrington, L.

  Resolved in the affirmative.
  Further Amendments made; and Bill to be read 3a To-morrow.
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till to-morrow, a quarter before Five o'clock.