ADDRESS FOR PAPERS. (Hansard, 15 July 1881)

§ LORD BELPER
rose to ask the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether he can state the reasons which have led to the change in the scheme of manage- 997 ment of Cooper's Hill College; and to move for a Copy of the new scheme, and also a copy of any correspondence that may have taken place between the Governor General in Council and the Secretary of State for India on the subject; also for a Return of—1. The annual expenditure of the college since its foundation; 2. Anuual receipts from the students; 3. The number of students who have entered the college in each year since its foundation; 4. The number of students in each year who, having passed through the college, have received appointments as civil engineers in India.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL
said, that he took very great interest in Cooper's Hill College, which was founded during the time of his administration at the India Office. If a great school of engineering had existed in India capable of supplying a sufficient number of competent men to execute economically the public works undertaken in India, it would have been folly on the part of the Government to start an institution like Cooper's Hill College. But the Indian Government had lost annually enormous sums of money by the carelessness and incompetence of many of the civil engineers in India, and when holding the Office of Secretary of State for India he found that it was hardly possible to obtain in the open market a sufficient number of competent men to conduct the public works in India on a scale such as that on which they were then being undertaken. Some of the civil engineers in India at the time to which he referred were very distinguished persons; but there were also a number of inferior men who might have been called "hard bargains." On one occasion, some millions were spent under the direction of the engineers of India in the construction of new barracks. It turned out, however, that these buildings had been erected in accordance with entirely erroneous principles, and that they were mere "sun traps." They were tremendously hot, and in consequence the health of the troops quartered in them suffered severely. Many of them were so insufficiently built that it was found they would not last for more than a few years, and in some cases even the lime that had been used was pronounced to be bad. In this way the Indian Government were annually losing hundreds of thousands of pounds in bad engineering. The insufficiency of the engineering service having been brought prominently before the notice of the India Office, the authorities formed the idea of the erec- 998 tion of Cooper's Hill College. The project was opposed by a number of persons, including many Members of Parliament, but eventually it was successfully carried out. He had always heard that it was considered that the College was a very thriving institution; but he quite understood that during the financial difficulties which India had recently felt fewer public works had been erected, and that, consequently, there had been a diminution in the demand for the services of such engineers as were trained at Cooper's Hill. In conclusion, he wished to assure their Lordships that the foundation of the College was not agreed to until a most thorough investigation had convinced the Indian Department of the insufficiency of the previous system.

VISCOUNT ENFIELD
said, his noble Friend behind him (Lord Belper) wished to know what had induced the authorities to make a change in the character of the institution known as Cooper's Hill College. The reason of the change was generally to extend its advantages, and this would, it was hoped, prove of use both at home and in India. A reduction was being made in the Public Works expenditure in India, and corresponding with that reduction there had been a diminution in the number of appointments on the staff of the Public Works Department. Cooper's Hill College having been established for exclusive training for civil engineers in India, it was not now possible to maintain it on its original footing, with the reduced number of men now required for engineering service in that country. It had in former years met with decided success. Rather than take steps which might eventually lead to its being closed, the authorities had determined, after consultation with and with the support of certain eminent engineers in this country, to try the experiment of making the College a general training institution for the civil engineering profession, offering the students at the close of their course of study the number of appointments required to fill up the vacancies which might occur each year in the Indian Public Works and Telegraph Departments. These appointments would be competed for among themselves. The College could receive 150 students, and the number of Indian appointments annually competed for would vary from 10 to 20. Correspondence had 999 taken place between the Secretary of State for India in Council and the Government of India on the whole subject of the future strength of the Indian Public Works Department and its recruitment; but as this Correspondence was still under consideration, he could not, speaking for the Secretary of State, undertake to produce it at the present time. There would be no objection to give the other Returns moved for, including a copy of the new scheme for Cooper's Hill College.

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, that Cooper's Hill College at the time of its establishment was a very necessary institution, as just at that time great Public Works were being constructed in India; but as time advanced the famines which periodically occurred in India made it inevitable that the amount spent on Public Works should be reduced, and it necessarily followed that the number of engineers required for the public service should be restricted also. As far as he had been able to observe, the education given at the school was of the highest character, and the results had been exceedingly satisfactory. He thought it should be very clearly understood that if there were more people being educated in England at this College than places could be found for in India, the inevitable result must be one of those periodical blocks which occurred in the service, and which always ended in the most disastrous manner for the Indian Exchequer. He believed the Government were acting wisely in the step they had taken; but he hoped the difficulties would not induce them to close altogether an institution which had done so much good service in the past.