QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS. (Hansard, 11 February 1881)

LORD ORANMORE AND BROWNE

asked, When the Evidence taken before Her Majesty's Commissioners on Agriculture, and also before Her Majesty's Commissioners appointed to inquire into the working of the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Act, 1870, will be circulated? in doing so, the noble Lord said, that as soon as the Coercion Bill, which was now before the House of Commons, was passed into law, a Land Bill was likely to be introduced, for that was the course pursued in 1870. First, they had a temporary Coercion Bill, and then a permanent Confiscation Bill. If the recommendations contained in the Report of the Royal Commissioners appointed to inquire into the working of the Land Act of 1870, and which were presided over by the noble Earl (the Earl of Bessborough), were to be carried out, most decidedly the Land Bill to be brought forward would be most exceptional and curious, and would be founded on principles which had never yet been sanctioned by any Parliament. Their Lordships, however, had not seen any of the evidence taken by the Commissioners, and as these Bodies had been appointed not only for the purpose of informing the Government, but for the purpose of 621 giving information to Parliament and the public generally, no Bill could possibly be well considered as fair and just to all parties, if it was introduced to Parliament and the public before they had had time to consider and digest the evidence and form an opinion as to how far it supported the different Reports of the Commissioners. As to the Duke of Richmond's Commission, statements were made as to tenants' improvements in Ireland in the Reports which would be misleading, unless the evidence could be gone through. Tenants' improvements were quite exceptional, and were almost unknown in the part of Ireland from which he (Lord Oranmore and Browne) came; and he should like to know upon what evidence the Commissioners founded their statements. From his experience as an Irish landlord, he was sorry to say that, in his district, much injury was done to the land by tenants, to say nothing of there being an absence of improvements. Instead of being the universal rule, as was alleged, they were quite exceptional, and, in fact, almost unknown. It would be interesting to him to see the evidence and to examine it, not only on that point, but also as to good and bad cultivation, for the cultivation of the land in some parts of Ireland was of the very worst kind, and in some small holdings there was not more than one-third of the produce there ought to be, because of the want of capital to cultivate the land. In his (Lord Oranmore and Browne's) part of the country, for instance, there were only two or three farms that could be said to be properly cultivated. The knowledge he had also led him to believe that, unless in exceptional cases, there was no such thing as competitive rents. As to the Land Commission, that was a very hurried affair—it only sitting for 60 days—the subject of inquiry being the working of the Land Act of 1870 and other supplementary Acts; but, not content with informing themselves upon those subjects, it seemed, according to some of the arguments made use of in the Reports, they had considered the question of the cultivation of land in Ireland for the past 700 or 800 years. Why they should have gone so far back he could not understand. For all practical purposes they might just as well have been instructed to inquire into the cultivation of the Garden of Eden. He 622 himself bought a property in Ireland in 1854, when there was great competition, and he paid a price which was so high that the Land Judge asked him if there was a gold mine on it. And now he was to be told that it was not his property at all, but the property of his tenants. The recommendations of the Commission were exceedingly curious, admitting as a basis for legislation the traditions, and sentiments, and wishes of the people. If this country were to be governed according to traditions, and sentiments, and wishes, then all common sense was gone, and there would be no limit to measures brought about by the competition of different parties in the country in their anxiety for momentary popularity. If they were to govern Ireland on such principles as that, he did not know what would become of the country, or of that class which received too little consideration in this matter— namely, the poor landlords. It was contended that the tenant ought to be joint owner of the land, subject to some rent that was to be fixed by some extraordinary tribunal, which was to be quite impartial. The position of the landlord was still more complicated. One thing was certain, he was to get no rent for two years. All freedom of contract, all existing contracts, as well as three or four Acts of Parliament that had been passed since 1847, were to be treated as if they had never existed. He asked their Lordships to give some thought to the case of the Irish landlords at the present time. He would not speak of the danger to their lives and movable property; but many of them were now in a state of absolute want, having been without income for two years. He knew many friends who ought to be comfortable; but who had suffered great privation owing to this cause, and who were now on the verge of want. That class of Her Majesty's subjects deserved as much consideration and justice as any other class, and yet he had never heard one word of sympathy for the poorer members of the class to which he belonged. They were not a small class, for the landlords with the mortgagees and others interested in the rents amounted to 150,000. It seemed to him that there was something ungenerous in the British public to think only of the tenants, who were alleged to be so poor, but who were better off now than those who used to be their richer neighbours. 623 If the present or the Conservative Government had only put the existing law into force, as it was enforced in England, it would have checked at once the state of things which now existed. Take the case of the miners' meeting in Lancashire the other day. A certain number of the men threatened the others if they did not come out on strike. The meeting was put down; but had that sort of thing been allowed to go on, what would have been the condition of the manufacturing districts in England in three months? Let the House consider the matter of Irish land fairly, with the evidence before it. Let Her Majesty's Government do, not what would gain them popularity, but what was honest. Let them not, as public men, put aside that honesty which would guide them in private. Let them pass a Bill for England, or, if it was necessary, for the three countries, and put in any clauses that were necessary to make it apply to exceptional holdings in Ireland. Such a system of legislation and fair dealing would do more to unite the countries, and to create peace, than this game of battledore and shuttlecock which they had been playing in Ireland ever since she had been connected with this country. It seemed likely that they would have the Land Bill in the other House by the 24th of February, and it was of the utmost importance that they should have time to digest the mass of evidence and understand it before being called on to decide on the measure. If the Bill were brought forward in a hurry and pushed on merely that the Government might gain popularity they would do a lasting injury to Ireland. Unless he was misinformed, a great part of the evidence of the first Commission had been in the possession of the Home Secretary for a considerable period; and he could not understand why, ere this, it had not been presented to the House.