Lords Sitting of 10 February 1880

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILL—First Reading—Workmen's Compensation (5).

QUEEN'S SPEECH—HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER TO THE ADDRESS.
THE LORD STEWARD (Earl BEAUCHAMP)reported Her Majesty's Answer to the Address, as follows:—
MY LORDS,
"I thank you sincerely for your loyal Address.
"I am confident that I can always rely upon your cordial co-operation and assistance in all measures which I may deem necessary for the safety of My Empire, and for the promotion of prosperity and concord among all classes of My People."

PERSIA AND HERAT.—QUESTIONS.
EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I rise for the purpose of putting a Question to the noble Earl at the head of the Government, of which I have given him private Notice. I wish to know, Whether there is any foundation for the announcement made to-day that Her Majesty's Government have released Persia from her Treaty engagements in regard to Herat?
THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELD: My Lords, in answer to the inquiry of the noble Earl, whether there is any truth in the statement that has been made that Her Majesty's Government have released Persia from her Treaty engagements not to enter Herat, I beg to state that there is no foundation for the statement. Your Lordships will remember that I intimated the other night, in speaking of the state of Afghanistan, that Her Majesty's Government were taking steps which they believed would lead to the settlement of that country, and that I might add those steps had been, in many instances, successful. During the time to which I am referring communications have been made from the Court of Persia to Her Majesty referring to their North-Eastern Frontier. There have been considerable communications on that subject, but nothing has been concluded. I am sure that, in these circumstances, your Lordships will show that confidence which is usually reposed in Her Majesty's Government, and will not press me for any details at the present moment beyond the statement I have made.
EARL GRANVILLE: Will Her Majesty's Government lay on the Table Papers relating to the character of those communications?
THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELD: No doubt Papers will be laid on the Table in due course; but it would now be inconvenient, and, I may say, injurious, to the public interests that those communications should be made known.

WORKMEN'S COMPENSATION BILL.

  BILL PRESENTED. FIRST READING.
  EARL DE LA WARR,in presenting a Bill to amend the Law relating to the liability of Employers to make compensation for injuries sustained by persons in their service, said, that this measure, in principle and substance, was very much the same as the Bill which he introduced last year, and the stages of which last Session he postponed from time to time at the request of the noble and learned Earl on the Woolsack, in order to allow the Bill of the Government on the same subject to come up from the House of Commons. He regretted that he was not present yesterday when the noble and learned Earl made his statement. His Bill was based on the Report of the Royal Commission of 1877 on Railway Accidents and on the Report of the Select Committee of the House of Commons which sat in the same year. It consisted only of one clause, and its object was to make masters and employers, whether corporate bodies or not, liable for accidents which might occur to, and injury which might be sustained by, their servants in consequence of the neglect of persons to whom such masters and employers delegated their authority and supervision, and also to make them liable for defective machinery, plant, or anything connected with their works which might be a cause of injury to their servants. He would ask that his Bill should be allowed to go to a Second Reading, and then be referred to the same Select Committee as that to which the Bill introduced the previous night by the noble and learned Earl (the Lord Chancellor) was to be committed; but on the understanding that the whole Bill, and not merely a particular part of it, was to be sent to the Select Committee. He begged to move the first reading of the Bill.
  Bill to amend the Law relating to the liability of Employers to make compensation for injuries sustained by persons in their service—presented(The Earl DE LA WARR.)
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that last Session the noble Earl produced to their Lordships a Bill on this subject, which, he presumed, from what the noble Earl had just said, was almost identical with the one which he was now laying on the Table. He stated at that time that the Bill of his noble Friend was not in accordance with the Report of the Select Committee of 1877, but was framed on the lines of a Report which that Committee had refused to adopt. He further stated that, therefore, it was not possible for Her Majesty's Government to support the Bill of his noble Friend, though there was a difficulty in stating their own views until their Bill on the subject reached their Lordships' House. His noble Friend had been good enough to defer the consideration of his Bill in the expectation that the measure of the Government would reach their Lordships' House, but it did not come up. He hoped, therefore, that his noble Friend would see that it would be impossible for Her Majesty's Government to adopt his suggestion and refer the Bill they had now before their Lordships and his noble Friend's Bill to a Select Committee. A Bill was referred to a Select Committee in order that evidence might be taken and that the Committee might go through the measure clause by clause. Of course, the object of referring the two Bills to the same Committee would be, not that they should be gone through clause by clause, but that the Committee should decide which Bill should be adopted. That, however, was really a question not for a Committee but for the House. He hoped, however, that his noble Friend would consent to serve on the Select Committee to which the Bill of the Government was to be referred, and then he would have an opportunity of proposing any Amendments which he might think advisable. He trusted, further, that his noble Friend would not consider it discourteous if he said that the Government could not consent to refer his Bill to a Select Committee.
  LORD HOUGHTONsaid, he was not convinced by the remarks of the noble and learned Earl on the Woolsack. He thought it very important that those whose opinions were represented by the noble Earl (Earl De La Warr) should
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  have their case heard by a Select Committee.
  Motion agreed to;Bill read la; to be printed;and to be read 2aon Thursday next. (No. 5.)

SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS—ELECTIONS OF GUARDIANS OF THE POOR —MOTION FOR RETURNS.
EARL FORTESCUE,in moving for Returns with reference to School Board elections and elections for Boards of Guardians, said, his object was to show that economy might be promoted without efficiency being impaired if the elections for the members of school boards were carried out on the same principle as those of Boards of Guardians. He had, from the first, protested against the adoption of the Ballot, as involving an expense utterly disproportionate to the ends to be attained; for a system which was good enough for the administration of the poor rates ought to be considered good enough for the administration of the school board rates, which, unduly high as they were, never reached anything like the amount of the poor rates. But whatever might have been said of the advantages of the Ballot system for the school boards when those bodies were first established, there no longer existed any good reason why the less expensive system of election in the case of Guardians should not be adopted in the case of the school boards, which had now generally little more than routine work to carry on.
Motion agreed to.
Return of the number of electors on the lists and the number of them who polled in each of the School Board elections contested in 1879 in England and Wales, and of the cost to the ratepayers of each such election: And
Similar Return with respect to the contested elections of guardians in 1879 in England and Wales.—(The Earl Fortescue.)
Return ordered to be laid before the House.
House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.