Lords Sitting of 13 May 1879

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Valuation of Lands (Scotland) Amendment* (83); Supply of Drink on Credit (84).
Committee—Report—Public Health (Scotland) Provisional Order (Castle Douglas)* (68).

TREATY OF BERLIN—THE BALKAN FORTRESSES.

  OBSERVATIONS. QUESTION.
  EARL STANHOPE: My Lords, a report has appeared in the newspapers that the Sultan has given up his right to garrison the fortresses of the Balkans. That report would seem to be based on a speech alleged to have been made by the Russian General Obrutscheff at Philip-popolis. I wish to ask my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether it is true that the Sultan has foregone his right under the Treaty of Berlin to garrison the fortresses of the Balkans?
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, my noble Friend was kind enough to give me Notice of the Question. I have brought down all the intelligence that we have with reference to the speech of General Obrutscheff. I do not believe that an entire report of the speech has reached this country; but the Consul General at Philippopolis has sent to us an extract. I will read what has been sent. It has been sent by telegraph. General Obrutscheff spoke on the occasion in question of the occupation of the Balkans. I may mention, in passing, that he is a distinguished General and an Aide-de-Camp of the Emperor, and that he was sent down, I believe, to facilitate the transfer of the government of Eastern Roumelia from the Russians to the Turks. He recently read a Proclamation at Philippopolis, and having concluded the reading of that document, delivered a speech in which occur these sentences—
  "From conversations with Sultan and Turkish Ministers, he was firmly convinced that the only object they had in view was the happiness and prosperity of the population, who would see no more Turkish soldiers, and who had arms against lawless bands."
  He went on to say—
  "Although the Sultan retains the right under the Treaty to occupy the Balkans, the Balkans will not be immediately occupied. Military considerations do not require the occupation of them; it is for the Bulgarians to prove that it is not necessary from a political point of view."
  Such is the information which we have from the Consul General. We have no ground for believing that the Sultan has entered into any engagement which precludes him from sending garrisons into the Balkans; but, as my noble Friend is aware, the provision in the Treaty is not, as some persons think, obligatory—it is permissive. The Sultan has a right to send garrisons into the Balkans for the purpose of defending them—of defending the Frontier. Of course, the Sultan, like any other potentate, will do that at the time most convenient to him, financially and politically. I do not understand that there is any intention of renouncing or indefinitely delaying the occupation of those garrisons; but I think it is probable that the Turkish troops will not be sent in till the Frontier is marked out and the evacuation finished. I may say, in conclusion, that it is a mistake to think that the renunciation

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  of this right is a matter which depends on the Sultan alone. Even supposing the Sultan was so misguided—which I cannot imagine—as to wish to renounce this right, which is of considerable value for the purpose of defending his Dominions, he could not renounce it without the consent of the other Powers who were parties to the Treaty of Berlin.

SUPPLY OF DRINK ON CREDIT BILL.

  PRESENTED. FIRST READING.
  EARL STANHOPE, in presenting a Bill to consolidate and amend the Law relating to the Supply of Intoxicating Prinks on Credit, said, that the Select Committee of their Lordships' House had neither examined witnesses nor reported on this particular point. It was only the fringe of a great question; and though he did not believe in legislation as a cure for the drunkenness of the country, still it occasionally might remove temptations out of the way of those who frequented public-houses. The provisions of the Act of 24 Geo. II. c. 40, which applied to England and Scotland, were confined to cases in which credit was given for spirits of less value than £1 supplied anywhere, or of loss quantity than a reputed quart delivered at the purchaser's residence. That Act was made more stringent by the 25 & 26 Vict. c. 38, under which publicans taking pledges for drink wore liable to a penalty. Both Acts were, however, silent as to loans, promissory notes, or securities; and also as to wines and all intoxicating drinks other than spirits. On the other hand, the County Courts Act, 1867, did extend to loans and securities; but was equally silent as to loans and pledges, and to wines and other intoxicating drinks. In Scotland the law was the same as in England, except that the County Courts Act, 1867, did not extend to that Kingdom. In Ireland matters of that kind were regulated by 55 Geo. III. c. 19, the enactments of which were confined to spirits of less quantity than two quarts. In that country, as in England and Scotland, publicans were liable to a penalty for taking pledges; but, unlike the law applying to England and Scotland, the Act applying to Ireland provided that unlicensed retailers of intoxicating drink of any value were deprived of right of action for debts incurred for drink, and employers
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  were subject to a penalty for paying workmen in a public-house. The object of the present Bill was to consolidate and make uniform throughout the United Kingdom the enactments which related to the sale of intoxicating drinks on credit. By the 9th and last clause in the Bill, he proposed to introduce a now system into the English law—namely, to make a penalty on paying wages to workmen in a public-house where intoxicating drinks were sold by retail. The practice of paying wages at a public-house was radically wrong, as it placed a premium on workmen immediately spending their money in drink either "for the good of the house," or in treating friends. It might be said that there would be difficulties in carrying out this provision; but in Ireland it was already the law, and surely in England it would be far easier than in Ireland to find other places than public-houses to pay wages in.
  Bill to consolidate and amend the enactments which relate to the Supply of Intoxicating Drinks on Credit—Presented (The Earl STANHOPE); read 1a; and to be printed. (No. 84.)
  House adjourned at a half past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.