Lords Sitting of 31 March 1879

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Report—Tramways.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Great Seal* (38).
Second Reading—Bankers' Books (Evidence)* (24).
Committee—Report—Oyster and Mussel Fisheries Order (Blackwater, Essex)* (29).
Third Reading—Supreme Court of Judicature Acts Amendment (11); Medical Act, 1858, Amendment* (37), and passed.

PARLIAMENT—THE EASTER RECESS.
  OBSERVATION.
  THE EARL OF BEACONSFIELDI said, it might be for the convenience of their Lordships to know that the Government proposed that the House should rise for the Easter Recess on the 4th, and re-assemble on the 21st, of April.

SOUTH AFRICA—THE ZULU WAR—THE RE-INFORCEMENTS.—QUESTION.
EARL DE LA WARR: I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, If he has received any further communication respecting the state of affairs at the Cape?
EARL CADOGAN: My Lords, there has been received at the Colonial Office to-day a telegram from Madeira; and I cannot give the noble Earl a better answer than by reading it.
"From High Commissioner, Maritzburg, To Secretary of State.
"March 11.—'Tamar' arrived with upwards of 800 men of 57th Regiment on hoard, which, with Bradshaw's Naval Brigade from" 'Shah,' a very fine body of men, will, I hope, enable Lord Chelmsford to insure communication with Pearson. Oham has not yet joined Wood, but seems to have effectually broken with Cetewayo—a very important defection."

ENGLAND AND SERVIA—TREATY OF COMMERCE.—QUESTION.
LORD BATEMANasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the

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statement which was published in the "Morning Post" of Saturday last referring to the official publication of the Treaty of Commerce between England and Servia is correct; and, if so, whether the noble Marquess will define what was meant by the term "reciprocity?" He wished also to know, Whether there was any objection to lay the terms of such Treaty, or the Treaty itself, upon the Table of the House? The statement to which he had referred was in these terms—
"England and Servia.—Belgrade, March 28.—The provisions of the Treaty of Commerce recently concluded with England are officially published to-day. The Treaty is based upon reciprocity with regard to exports, imports, and transit, in accordance with the most favoured nation clause."
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, it would be a cruel addition to the duties of the Foreign Office if it were called upon to interpret the telegrams that appear in the newspapers. With respect to the word "reciprocity," which seems to stick in the throat of my noble Friend, I shall not attempt the interpretation of the word. It lies entirely in the depths of the consciousness of the person who composed the telegram. I cannot find anything about it in the Treaty in question. The Treaty is a simple matter containing a clause called "the most favoured nation clause." I have this moment laid it on the Table of the House.

SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 11.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE ACT AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 11.)

  THIRD READING.
  Bill read 3a (according to Order).
  LORD DENMANmoved to insert the words—
  "That the definition of the quorum of three in the Supreme Court of Judicature Act be altered, so as to allow any three peers, of whom the Lord Chancellor or a deputy speaker must be one, to hear and vote on appeals in the House of Lords if the Lord Chancellor or deputy speaker presiding should wish for their attendance, instead of their dispersing after the hearing and joining in prayers."
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, the Bill dealt exclusively with the primary Courts of the country, and did not touch the jurisdiction of the House of Lords. It would, therefore, be out
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  of the scope of the Bill to introduce an Amendment on the subject.
  Motion (by Leave of the House) withdrawn.
  Amendments made; Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

SOUTH AFRICA—THE ZULU WAR— THE ARMY HOSPITAL CORPS.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD DORCHESTERasked, Whether it is true as stated by a local newspaper that Colonel Pearson's column went into Zululand with only one military surgeon to two full battalions of troops, and whether the Army Hospital Corps is composed of lads about whose want of nerve and experience the doctors complain very bitterly? When he put the Notice on the Paper he thought that a direct denial should be published to the statements which had been made. To send one medical officer a distance of 40 miles from the base of operations in charge of 3,000 men—if that really was the case—would be a subject for severe remark, if not strong reprobation. One newspaper published in Natal said the expression of opinion was general as to the youth and inexperience and want of nerve—which he fancied was another term for incapacity—of those medical attendants who had been formed into a special corps. No branch of the military service called for more direct and immediate attention. He believed that the whole of the new medical system for the Army had been more unsuccessful than some other innovations which he had watched. The Army Hospital Corps had been a gigantic failure; and he hoped, before the close of the Session, there would be an ample discussion of the subject.
  VISCOUNT BURYsaid, that no Member of the House would dispute the proposition of his noble Friend, that their soldiers in the field deserved, and ought to have, the most skilled, the most careful, and the amplest medical attendance that could possibly be obtained. His noble Friend assumed the truth of the report, which he said he hoped would be contradicted. He asked if it was true that the column of Colonel Pearson had only one military surgeon to two full battalions of troops? Now, if hi s noble Friend had made the slightest inquiry at the Department which he (Viscount Bury) represented he would have

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  received the most ample information to satisfy him that the statement was unfounded, and that his vaticinations were, on this occasion, entirely out of place. He had a statement showing the state of Colonel Pearson's column on the 21st December, 1878. At that date it consisted of:—Europeans, 1,400, with two Army medical officers and two Naval medical officers; Natives, 2,000, with three civil surgeons. The principal medical officer asked for three more medical officers for this column. Three more were at the time on their way to Natal, where they arrived on January 13, 1879. On the 20th of the same month one Medical Department officer and three civil surgeons arrived. With regard to the Hospital Corps, the noble Lord said, that they were composed of boys.
  LORD DORCHESTER: I quoted from a Natal paper.
  VISCOUNT BURY: The noble Lord asked if the corps was composed of lads without nerve or experience? He (Viscount Bury) had to answer that such was not the case. At that time—December, 1878—there were at the Capo five officers and 142 non-commissioned officers and privates. Of these, there were only nine between the ages of 10 and 20. The majority were between 21 and 26, and above that age there were 60. The average age was 28. Of the 142, only 37 had not passed through a course of field and hospital instruction, and one-half of these were non-commissioned officers of long service—some 20 years—who had never had the opportunity of undergoing instruction. On the arrival of the re-inforcements now on their way to the Cape there would be an ample supply both of officers of the Medical Department and of the Army Hospital Corps; and so far from the men being unskilled men, they were extremely well-trained, and, with the exception of 37, who were mostly old non-commissioned officers, had passed through a detailed course of instruction.

  GREAT SEAL BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the Law respecting the manner of passing grants under the Great Seal, and respecting officers connected therewith—Was presented by THE LORD CHANCELLOR; read 1ª. (No. 38.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.