THE EARL OF CARNARVONI beg to ask a Question of my noble Friend the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, of which I have given him private Notice. I read in the papers this morning what purported to be Minutes of what had occurred between Sir Bartle Frere and Mr. Joubert, who formerly held the office of President in the Transvaal. I should be glad to know if these Minutes 265 are authentic? For my own part, I should be sorry to think that they express correctly the state of feeling among the whole, or even a large portion of the Dutch population, whether it be in the Transvaal, in the neighbouring Orange Free State, or in the Cape, the most influential of all. On the contrary, I cannot help thinking that in many parts of that Continent there exists a very different feeling. I would also ask my noble Friend—though I do not anticipate that he will be able to give an official answer—Whether it is true, as I see it stated with great satisfaction in this morning's papers, that the Chief Magistrate of the Orange Free State has either proffered or undertaken to send us no less than 500 men to our support in the Zulu War? I was well acquainted with the Chief Magistrate of the Orange Free State when he was in this country two years ago, and I was very much impressed with his steadfast, truthful character; and I shall not be at all surprised to hear that he has proffered us 500 men. It will be very satisfactory to know that that is the case, not only as regards himself, but also as affording evidence of the state of feeling in the Orange Free State, and as affording evidence of the state of feeling among a most influential portion of the Dutch population.
§ EARL CADOGAN, in reply, said, that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies had received an account of the interview between Sir Bartle Frere and Mr. Joubert similar to that which his noble Friend had mentioned as having appeared in the newspapers, but it had reached the Secretary of State unofficially. He thought his noble Friend (the Earl of Carnarvon) would agree with him that, in these circumstances, his right hon. Friend was justified in withholding that account from the Papers about to be presented to Parliament; and probably his noble Friend would be satisfied with the assurance that as soon as the official account of the interview had been received, it would be included in the Papers to be laid on the Table of their Lordships' House. He had just laid on the Table Papers relating to South Africa received up to yesterday. He might further mention that two telegrams had been that day received at the Colonial Office through the Brazilian Telegraph Company in these terms— 266
Following transports arrived St. Vincent:—5th, Olympus, 1.55 p.m.; Queen Margaret, 7.30 p.m.; 6th, City of Venice, 6 a.m.; Russia, 7.30 a.m.Transports China and Florence arrived St. Vincent 9 a.m. 6th.This intelligence showed that the transport service was working favourably. As to the second part of the noble Earl's Question, he was unable to give any official confirmation of the report.
THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, he did not mean in his Question official information, but any information.
§ EARL CADOGANsaid, he was not able to give his noble Friend any further information.
§ EARL GRANVILLEsaid, he could not see what was the objection to the publication of the unofficial account of the interview between Sir Bartle Frere and Mr. Joubert, received at the Colonial Office, if, as he understood from the noble Earl, it was similar to the account which appeared in the newspapers.