Lords Sitting of 28 July 1879

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Lord Clerk Register (Scotland) * (164).
Second Reading—Industrial Schools (Powers of School Boards) (153); East Indian Railway (Redemption of Annuities) * (160).
Committee—Bills of Sale (Ireland) * (155).
Committee—Report—Conveyancing and Land Transfer (Scotland) Act (1874) Amendment * (141).
Third Reading—Slave Trade (East African Courts) * (147), and passed.

ISLAND OF CYPRUS—SLAVERY.

  QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY: My Lords, on the 11th of July of last year, I put a Question to the Lord President of the Council in these words—
  "Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government, on assuming the occupation and administration of Cyprus, to maintain or suppress, as has been done in Her Majesty's dominions in India, the system of slavery now existing in the Island?"
  And to this Question I received the following Answer:—
  "I have to state that Sir Garnet Wolseley leaves this country to-morrow for Cyprus; and when he arrives there it will be his duty to make full inquiry and investigation into all the institutions of the Island and everything connected with them. When that is done he will make a Report to Her Majesty's Government as to the state of things he has found in Cyprus; and having received such a Report from him, Her Majesty's Government will then be in a position to state the course they intend to take."—[3 Hansard, ccxli. 1224.]
  I venture to repeat the Question, because a whole year has elapsed and no Report from the Governor of Cyprus has as yet been laid on your Lordships' Table. Now, the Question is of importance, not only as touching Slavery in general, but as to the alleged fact that it is existing in Cyprus under British rule. I know perfectly well that no Slave Trade openly exists, and that no such thing as a slave market is to be found in any part of the Turkish Empire. That system has long been abolished. But the sale and purchase of slaves are still carried on extensively by private agents and in private houses; and, indeed, constituted as Turkish society is, Slavery is as necessary and indispensable to the Empire—especially among the wealthier classes—as is the Sultan himself. Now, as Cyprus was for centuries under Turkish rule, the probability is that a similar system prevails, and that it is fed by large importations of slaves from East Africa and the Red Sea—for which latter traffic Turkey is specially responsible, as it is mainly conducted at Jeddah, a port in the Red Sea belonging to the Sultan of Turkey. From all quarters there are imported, as I am informed, some 70,000 slaves every year. None are imported for prædial or agricultural purposes. The women are imported as
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  servants for the harems, and the men for other duties, for which they are previously fitted by the most cruel and disgusting mutilations. There is also a large and equally disgusting traffic in white slaves in the very centre of Turkey itself. Circassian slavery was put down by the Russians; but the Circassians who immigrated into Turkey have maintained their old habits, and sell their sons and daughters to the highest bidders among the sensualists of Turkey. Now, this domestic Slavery may prevail in Cyprus. If Cyprus be still under Turkish law, it is highly probable—certainly possible. I trust, therefore, to learn from Her Majesty's Government whether, as Cyprus has now passed under British rule, they will not, following the precedent of the law enacted in India in 1843, decree the total and immediate abolition of Slavery, whether external or domestic.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, the promise referred to by my noble Friend who has just addressed the House was given by my noble Friend behind me (the Duke of Richmond and Gordon) last year during my absence from this country. I really did not know that such a Report had been promised, and it has never been drawn up by Sir Garnet Wolseley. With regard to a general Report on the subject, there would be no objection to its production if any had been sent home; but I have received the most distinct and categorical statements, both from Sir Garnet Wolseley and Colonel Biddulph, that involuntary servitude does not exist in Cyprus. It is stated so positively by persons who must know that I think there can be no doubt that the fact is as they state. If my noble Friend recalls to his mind for a moment the state of the legislation in the Turkish Empire, he will see that, wherever the Turkish law is honestly enforced, Slavery is not likely to exist. It is, unfortunately, a fact that the cases in which it is so enforced are very rare. The White Slave Trade to which my noble Friend has alluded was abolished by a Decree of the Sultan in 1854, and the Black Slave Trade was abolished in 1857. Every person who landed in the Turkish Empire after those dates in a state of slavery became free by the action of the law. My noble Friend has justly stated that Slavery in Turkey has been almost entirely confined

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  to, or connected with, harem life. It is obvious that men treated in the manner which my noble Friend glanced at are not likely to be long-lived; and as there has been no legal importation of them since 1857, it is probable that there are not many of those slaves now in existence. As to the women, they are of little value when they become old; and as it has been the custom in many parts of Turkey, and I presume in Cyprus, to manumit slaves when they get old, and as all who were imported after 1857 became free, I do not think that, at the present time, there is any person suffering servitude in Cyprus. With respect to the rest of the Turkish Empire, I agree with my noble Friend that there is reason to fear that the state of things—especially at Jeddah—is deplorable. We have made the most earnest remonstrances to the Turkish Government to employ Governors who shall honestly carry out the Turkish laws, and put a stop to the horrible traffic which goes on across the Bed Sea. We have very nearly concluded a Convention which will give us a right of search at the Red Sea, and which, but for the present Ministerial crisis in Constantinople, would, I think, have been already signed. We shall spare no efforts to carry out the Convention, and put a stop to that which, I believe, is now the sole supply channel of Slavery in the Turkish Empire—or, at all events, the main one. With respect more particularly to Cyprus, I can only repeat the assurance that Slavery does not exist there. When I saw the Notice of my noble Friend on the Paper I thought he might have some facts which might show that the contrary is the case; and I am very glad to find that he has nothing of the kind. The oppressed in all parts of the world find their way to the noble Earl; and if there were the slightest indication given to us which should induce us to believe that any person is kept in servitude in Cyprus against his will, we should act without hesitation, and without delay. My noble Friend may be quite satisfied, however, that nothing of the kind exists.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY: Does the noble Marquess really say that there is no importation of slaves into Turkey at the present time?
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: No, there is an illegal importation to an
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  enormous extent into Turkey; but it was absolutely prohibited by the Firman of 1857. This is only one of many instances which show that, if the Turkish law were properly carried out, matters would go on very fairly in that country; but the neglect of the Administration to carry out their own laws gives rise to the present evils.
  THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY: Should her Majesty's Government discover, upon further inquiry, that there is anything of the sort in Cyprus, will they proceed to introduce the Indian legislation, in order promptly to put it down?
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: Certainly.

INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS (POWERS OF SCHOOL BOARD) BILL—(No. 153.)
(The Lord Steward.)
INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS (POWERS OF SCHOOL BOARD) BILL—(No. 153.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord Steward.)
  EARL FORTESCUEhoped that the Home Secretary would refuse, under the powers conferred upon him by this Bill, to diffuse expenditure of a temporary character over a long period of years. In the case of the reformatory ship which had been extravagantly fitted up by the London School Board, the cost of the carpets and furniture, and he had heard of a piano also, had been borrowed, and spread over a long series of years. Such an example, if sanctioned, would be a direct encouragement to extravagance. He hoped that nothing would be placed against the capital that was likely to be worn out in the course of those years.
  EARL BEAUCHAMPadmitted that there was a considerable expenditure on this head beyond what there ought to be; but he trusted that the conspicuous example of extravagance mentioned by the noble Lord would be the means of preventing similar cases in future. The object of the Bill was simply to enable school boards to start or contribute to the support of industrial schools.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

INDIA CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IN INDIAN GAOLS.—OBSERVATIONS.
LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYsaid, that he regretted having to take up the time of the House with another case of illegality; but he had waited on the Secretary of State at the India Office in reference to this matter, and his noble Friend had said that he was unable to do anything. The Brahmin Gaya Pershad was imprisoned on the 3rd of November, 1874, for seven years for forgery at Jubbalpore; here he was set to work at the hand-mill, but this work was found to be too hard for him. At the end of three months, Mr. Morris, the Chief Commissioner, came to the gaol and sent him from there to Nag-pore, though Dr. Rogers said he was unfit to travel. In Nagpore Gaol he was flogged 10 or 13 times on the pretext of his having tampered with the warders, and obtained tobacco and sugar. In England, to have flogged a burglar on these grounds would have been illegal. The case might be left here; but as it was in human nature to feel more sympathy for a deserving person than for an undeserving one, he would say a few words about Gaya Pershad's case. He was a man who had received certificates from Sir Richard Temple for his services to the British Government during the Mutiny; the late General Sleeman had been a constant visitor of his father's, Behary Lai. Gaya Pershad had lent money to a Raja Bulwunt Singh, whose affairs came into the Court of Wards, and Captain, or Major, McLean had charge of that case. Gaya Pershad sued for his debt of about 100,000 rupees, including interest, and obtained a decree in his favour; the other side appealed, and he again obtained a decree in his favour. There had been a dispute between Gaya Pershad and Mr. Morris, a younger brother of the Chief Commissioner, who was a tenant of Gaya Pershad's, on matters connected with the tenancy. Mr. McLean asked Gaya Pershad to reduce his claims on the Raja's estate by 10,000 rupees; he declined. He then asked him to reduce it by 6,000 rupees; he again declined taking less than his decree. Mr. McLean then said he would see if he could not make him do so. His papers and vouchers were then examined, and a receipt for about 200 rupees, written by
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one Lall Charran Dass, an agent of the Raja, and bearing the Raja's seal, was said to be a forgery. Whilst the papers were in the hands of Mr. McLean another stamp was put upon the Raja's seal so as to obliterate it, and he was convicted by what appears to have been fabricated evidence. Primâ facie, it was improbable that a man in Gaya Pershad's position, and with a claim of about 100,000 rupees, would have forged a receipt for about 200 rupees. The friend of Gaya Pershad, who endeavoured to obtain relief for him from his ill-treatment in prison, failed to get a hearing, and was driven away with ignominy from the houses of the officials he attempted to see. About January, 1877, a Petition was sent to the Viceroy, in the names of the wife and son of Gaya Pershad, praying for a commutation of his sentence; but the only reply given was that the Chief Commissioner, Mr. Morris, had reported unfavourably upon it. Her Majesty's Ministers speak so little in this House, that we are driven to what are called their extra-Parliamentary utterances in order to ascertain their minds. On the 16th of July last the Secretary of State for India said that West Kent had never been polluted by the representation of a Liberal. He (Lord Stanley of Alderley) had not sufficient experience of electioneering speeches to know if that was according to the usual amenity of language; but he feared that other people, in other places, would apply those words of the noble Viscount to those who sat in the seat of justice. On the 25th of July, at Cooper's Hill, the noble Viscount said that England had given to India "Justice and honesty in high places, and pure Courts established for carrying on litigation." He hoped the Secretary of State would make these words good, and inquire into this case.
VISCOUNT CRANBROOKsaid, that he knew nothing of this case, except what had been communicated to him a few days ago by the noble Lord. According to the statement of the noble Lord, this man had been convicted of forgery in 1874, had since been undergoing his sentence, and had been flogged a certain number of times by the warder. He (Viscount Cranbrook) did not know whether this statement was true or not. He was without information on the subject; and in the most recent Reports with re-

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gard to Indian gaols, which came down to 1877, no names of the prisoners were given, Whether this person was still undergoing sentence he (Viscount Cranbrook) had no means of knowing. He could only say that if this man was suffering any wrong the remedy should be sought in India; and he had no doubt that if the friends of this man applied to the Viceroy he would order inquiry to be made.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, Two o'clock.