§ VISCOUNT BURYMy Lords, I have the honour of laying on the Table the Report of the Committee appointed some time ago by my noble Friend (Viscount Cranbrook), when he was Secretary of State for War; and it is thought desirable that in doing so I should, on the part of Her Majesty's Government, give some short explanation of the circumstances which led to the appointment of the Committee, the course of its procedure, the recommendations they have made, and also the course Her Majesty's Government are prepared to take with regard to those recommendations. I make no apology for troubling your Lordships with these details, because anything which relates to the Volunteer Force of Great Britain is of enormous importance to the country, and of great interest not only to many Members of this House, but to a large body of our countrymen. The Volunteer Force has very much changed its character in the last 20 years, during which it has flourished. Its history, briefly—although I hardly need remind your Lordships ofit—is that in 1859, under circumstances which we all remember, the Volunteer Force was established by the authority of the Lords Lieutenant of the counties under the old Act of 1804. In 1862, two or three years after, a Royal Commission 1163 was appointed, which advocated the payment of a certain sum to Volunteers by way of assisting them in their expenses. It was not, at that time, thought that the whole of the expenses of the Volunteer Force ought to be borne by the State. The Capitation Grant originated in 1862, and in 1863 the present Volunteer Act was passed. There was a Departmental Committee in 1869–70, in consequence of the recommendations of which certain additions were made to the sum which had been laid down as necessary to be given as a Capitation Grant by the Royal Commission of 1862. In 1871, there was another and a very considerable change in the constitution of the Force. In that year, the Regulation of the Forces Act removed the controlling power from the Lords Lieutenants of counties, in whom it had resided before, leaving only to them the power of recommending for first commissions in the Volunteer Force, and transferring the control to the Crown. In 1873 another, and, perhaps, in its effects a still larger, change took place. The Force had increased greatly in numbers, strength, and efficiency; and the Mobilization Committee appointed to inquire into various military matters, recommended that the Volunteer Force should be amalgamated into the body of the Army. From that time they were considered practically as soldiers, differing only from other soldiers in their terms and conditions of service, which were strictly defined and extremely limited. Those are the principal legislative changes made in the Volunteer system during the 20 years of their existence; but during that time there were also great changes in their personnel, organization, and degree of efficiency. At first, it was not contemplated that the State should pay the whole of the expense. At first—it was not, perhaps, unnatural—the expense of the Force was met partly by local subscriptions, aided by the Capitation Grant. In course of time these local subscriptions, if they did not disappear, have become so diminished that it is obvious if the Capitation Grant, or aid from the State in some form or another be not fixed at a sum sufficient to meet the requirements of the Force, that Force could hardly be held together. Again, under the peculiar circumstances of the Force, at its commencement a great deal of 1164 power was left in the hands of individual commanding officers. I will not say that every man did that which was right in his own eyes; but every commanding officer throughout the country had to overcome local difficulties, and to meet local requirements by his own personal influence, and with such means as were available. It was not to be supposed that there could result from that system anything like sufficient homogeneity, if I may so call it, to enable it to dovetail into our other Forces, when, in 1873, the great change was made which converted it into an integral portion of the Army. Under those circumstances, there arose a general belief that the constitution and organization of the Force required revision, and revision outside the Force itself. There was an absence of supervision which, however inevitable, and, perhaps, salutary in the early days of the Force, was no; longer desirable; and it became a matter of serious reflection when considered in connection with the future position the Force was to occupy. It is a curious fact that almost every commanding officer I have talked with considers himself to have been placed in an exceptional position. If I asked any commanding officer—and I appeal to the knowledge of all those noble Lords who have at all associated themselves with the Volunteer movement—how he met any particular difficulty, he invariably answered—"My position was exceptional, but this is the way I dealt with it." Such being the circumstances, it is evident that some alteration was necessary, and that it should be effected by the Government. The then Secretary of State for War, in the beginning of last year, appointed a Committee to look into the condition of the Force. The orders which he gave to that Committee were—
(1) To inquire into the necessary requirements of the Volunteer Force, and whether they were met by the grant; (2) whether if the grant was not sufficient for the purpose, in what form assistance should he given; (3) whether any alteration in the organization of the Force was necessary: (4) whether increased efficiency was desirable, and, if so, in what direction it should be attempted; (5) whether, if the present system of Capitation Grant was extended, it would, or would not, tend to economical administration.Your Lordships will see from these items the full and extensive character of the 1165 inquiry; but there were other subjects referred to by the same Committee, relating to important matters, but to which I do not intend even cursorily to direct your Lordships' attention this evening. I will therefore state what the Committee did in carrying out this inquiry. In the first place, they made a most minute investigation into the way in which the money was expended throughout the whole Force. For that purpose they drew up a series of questions addressed to all the officers commanding Volunteer corps, 293 in number. They were required to send in a tabulated statement of every item of expenditure, and they were to do this without reference to whether or not that expenditure was wholly covered by the Capitation Grant. If it were in excess of that grant, they were to state from what source they obtained the difference; at the same time, the Committee sent to each commanding officer a series of questions calculated to elicit from them their opinion as to the requirements of the Force, and the various changes they suggested should be carried out. The answers which came to this demand for information were very full in detail, and the consequence was that, at an early period of their proceedings, the Committee were placed in possession of the most minute details as to every item of expenditure, and also the opinion of every commanding officer as to what changes should be made and their nature. Fortified by these expressions of opinion, the Committee felt itself in a position with advantage to examine witnesses and elicit further information for themselves. They called before them a great many witnesses, some of them Members of this House and of the other House of Parliament. To all of these witnesses they addressed questions extending over a very wide scope, and having for their object the eliciting of opinion as to any great change which was thought to be necessary in the organization of the Force. After these they called before them as witnesses many prominent Volunteers throughout the country—from the Metropolis and from the great towns, from the country districts and also from Scotland. The evidence they obtained has been laid upon your Lordships' Table to-night, and I think it will be said that the evidence is most valuable in its character, and that the inquiry 1166 was most searching. Whether the Committee has been successful in framing, upon the information which they then obtained, a scheme at all commensurate with the importance of the subject will be for your Lordships to judge. At any rate, if I may speak in my official capacity, and not for the moment, as a Member of the Committee, I should say that they have taken great pains, that they have boon successful in collecting information, and that they have devoted great attention to it. The first point which they thought it right to recommend was that the establishment of the Volunteer Force should be defined. Hitherto there had been no fixed limit, and as many Volunteers were taken as offered themselves; in fact, the Government was only too glad to have them. Now, it has been thought that as there is a tendency in the Force to increase both in numbers and in expense, and as the Force has become part of the Military Forces of the Crown, it was necessary to follow the precedent of all other branches of the Naval and Military Services, and present annually to Parliament a detail of the numbers to be voted in that year. In technical language, to fix the annual Establishment of the Force. The proposition that we made was that the Establishment should be fixed at 250,000; but when that matter came before the consideration of my right hon. and gallant Friend at the head of the War Office, the illustrious Duke (the Duke of Cambridge), and others, it was thought that it was too high, and it was eventually determined that the Establishment should be fixed at 200,000 men. the present Establishment is somewhat above that number; but without going into details, I may say that the number of efficient Volunteers this year is 193,000; and thus, in fixing the ultimate Establishment at 200,000, we shall not necessarily diminish the number of efficient Volunteers, though we may alter the distribution of those Volunteers in the regiments, perhaps in the companies. The manner in which that must be carried out must, of course, be left to Departmental regulation. It is not a thing that can be done at once, and it will take a considerable time. There are several points in this Report on which I will not stay to comment now, and I will go straight to that part of it 1167 which deals with the constitution and organization of the Force. It is an essential characteristic of volunteering that a man should be allowed to leave on giving 14 days' notice. That is a condition which all Volunteers have hitherto enjoyed; and, as it has been found to work well in practice, the Committee decided that it would not be well to interfere with that regulation. They, however, felt that it would be advisable that some voluntary agreement should be entered into by Volunteers, which should bind them to remain for a certain time and servo for a certain number of years, if the Government would supply them with their clothing. It is obvious, if a considerable sum of money is expended in clothing a man, and he is to be permitted to leave at 14 days' notice, the Government would be at a disadvantage. We found in the evidence that, in many corps, an agreement was entered into between the men and the commanding officer, which was enforceable in the Courts of Law, by which the Volunteer bound himself, in return for his clothing, to serve for a definite number of years, and to keep himself efficient during that time; but that if, during that time, he should exercise his legal option of retiring at 14 days' notice, he should pay a proportionate sum to the cost of his uniform for the benefit of the corps. The Committee did not think it right to recommend to the Government the initiation of such an agreement; but they thought that this matter might be easily dealt with by the regulations of each corps, and that it might be left to the commanding officers. I now pass to the question of the organization and constitution of the Force. Your Lordships will remember that the scheme for the localization of the Army provides for the division of the whole country into a certain number of sub-districts, and that to each sub-district there are attached two regiments of the Line and a regiment of Militia. The localization scheme also provides that the Volunteers shall be an integral portion of the Army; and that, in case of invasion, they should be called up and attached to these sub-districts. The Committee thought a great many advantages would accrue if the Volunteers were at once permanently attached to their sub - district brigade, which 1168 would then consist of two linked battalions of Regulars, two of Militia, and two or more of Volunteers, according to their strength. And at this part of my remarks I may anticipate what I shall have to say presently in regard to the clothing, and mention that we propose that the Volunteer Force shall be clothed like the Regular Army. This, coupled with the association with the Regular Army, we consider will have the best effect upon the Volunteer Service. It will also have another effect—it will, I think, add to the social value of a Volunteer commission, when the Volunteer officers find themselves associated in this way with the officers of the Regular Army. It is a very complicated subject, and we found many difficulties in our way. There are a great number of small battalions and small corps scattered throughout the country; and while these exist in an independent and isolated form, due economy is hardly possible. The expense of volunteering (other than that of clothing and arming the Force) is mainly due to the charge for drill-sheds, head-quarters, and head-quarter staff; and unless some means are devised of diminishing that expenditure, a great addition would have to be made to the Capitation Grant, which the Committee have not thought fit to recommend. It would be impossible to obtain due economy of administration in the face of these arrangements; and we therefore propose that, so far as is possible, the recommendation which was made by the Committee of 1869–70 for the consolidation of administrative regiments should be carried into effect; and we do not propose to stop even there, for we further propose that in towns where a large number of small regiments exist—of course, with due respect to, and regard for, existing arrangements—that those regiments should be gradually joined together, and be made into larger ones. This would facilitate the organization with regard to the sub-district, and it would also meet another requirement in the Report of the Localization Committee—namely, that for the formation of provisional battalions. The suggestion is that, in case of necessity, provisional battalions should be formed out of the Volunteers, taking 25 per cent out of each regiment in the district. The Committee felt that, under the pre- 1169 sent circumstances, that arrangement would hardly be possible. To take 25 out of every 100 men dressed differently, organized differently, and unaccustomed to work together, and who are really and practically dissociated from one another, was a proceeding which the Committee thought would not work well in practice. But if this recommendation that the small battalions shall be consolidated into large battalions is carried out, and if those were to be joined with the sub-district brigades, then it would be quite easy, considering that they were accustomed to work together, to take 25 per cent for the formation of provisional battalions. My Lords, I now turn to the question of discipline, instruction, and efficiency, a branch of the inquiry to which I need not say the Committee devoted a great deal of attention; but on which, as it refers mainly to detail, I will not detain your Lordships at any length. With regard, however, to efficiency, those who have watched the Force will observe the great improvement which has taken place since the Volunteer movement began, when small companies were established which were little more than rifle clubs, and which were controlled by no military regulations. I am bound to say that every application for increased stringency and efficiency has been most cheerfully obeyed. Every time conditions have been imposed as the stipulation on which Government aid should be granted they have been complied with by the Force; and, as in the past, we have found every additional concession was made the occasion for demand of increased efficiency. The Committee thought they could not err by working on the same lines, and when they proposed that some additional Government aid should be granted in a particular direction, that they should demand in return for it increased efficiency. From the whole body of the evidence which I have laid on your Lordship's Table to-night, I think it will be seen that everything which has hitherto been given to the Volunteers has been given with a condition attached to it, and that, in all instances, the condition has been cheerfully fulfilled. While on this branch of the subject, there is one small point to which I may refer, and which, though a matter of detail, is a matter of some 1170 importance. We propose a small change in the interest of efficiency in regard to the number of drills required from a recruit on joining the ranks. At present, 30 are required before a man can become efficient; but in the following year he is only required to perform nine, the ordinary number of drills for a Volunteer. Taking into consideration the large number of matters in which a recruit has to be trained, and the short time at his disposal, we were of opinion that to become a fully-trained Volunteer in 30 drills was hardly to be expected. We therefore propose that the obligation to perform 30 drills in the first year should remain as at present, but that the recruit should be called upon to perform a like number in the second year, instead of nine as now. I believe that that requirement will be met with acquiescence, and I can only say, from the evidence which was laid before us, that I do not think this will in many cases entail more service than is given now in practice by Volunteers who join the ranks of some regiments where more stringent regulations are enforced. I now pass to Artillery Volunteers. Among a large body of that Force there is an idea that it would be easy to make a considerable increase in the formation of Field Artillery. We investigated that point, and the Committee came to the conclusion that it was not easy to form Field Artillery with the materials at our command. It is not that the men would find it difficult to learn the drill, the riding, or any individual thing; but Artillery is such a highly-polished arm, and involves such a multiplicity of duties, that it is impossible to suppose that Volunteers, having limited time only at their disposal, could become proficient as flying Artillery, or form a corps like the Army Field Artillery. The Committee, however, came to the conclusion that it would be possible to form Field Artillery with heavy draught horses, on some such basis as has already been seen in operation at Volunteer reviews, and that some extension of the Artillery corps in that direction would serve a useful purpose. With regard, also, to Artillery Volunteers, we find that they had very great difficulties to contend with. They ask for more instruction, which is, of all others, the kind of request least easy to refuse. They said—"We give our 1171 time and attention, and we are willing to find everything except money." The same thing applies to the Engineers; and here I should like to say that, in my opinion, the Artillery and Engineer corps have devoted fully as much time and attention as any other branch of the Volunteer Force to the duties imposed upon them, and that they are in every way worthy of encouragement. The Committee have recommended the Government to give some consideration to the claims which they have advanced for increased facilities for instruction, and my right hon. and gallant Friend is inclined to adopt the suggestion all the more willingly that it will not be much additional expense. I come now to "Clothing and Equipment." The Committee went very thoroughly into this matter. The records of our investigation in this direction are very voluminous, and I need not trouble your Lordships with them. It will be sufficient for me to say that we propose that the different regiments of Volunteers shall be clothed, like the corresponding arm in the Regular Service, in the national colour of scarlet; that the clothing shall be supplied out of the Capitation Grant, so as to involve no additional expense to the country. It is true that, theoretically, the Force can now be supplied with clothing out of the Capitation Grant; but in practice that is not so. The Volunteer earns his Capitation Grant in one year, and it is paid in the next—it is, therefore, always in arrear. Articles supplied, out of the Government stores must be paid for on application. It is therefore impossible, unless he obtains an advance from his banker, or pays for it himself, that a commanding officer can obtain the clothing from the Government stores. We felt that it was quite impossible that our recommendation should be carried into effect, and the Capitation Grant be made to bear the charge, unless some facilities were given to a corps to avoid their running into debt. We propose, therefore, that the clothing should be supplied on application from the Government Clothing Department, not on the principle of immediate payment, but on the principle of taking 10. per man per annum till the whole of the debt is paid. The consequence is that in between three and four years a suit of clothing made to wear four years would be paid for by the corps; and if 1172 the alteration we have suggested in regard to the four years' service agreement should be carried out, on the one hand, the Government would not suffer, and, on the other hand, the Volunteers will be supplied with clothing on easy terms, and the corps will be very much less liable than hitherto to run into debt. We have found that the present method of clothing the Volunteers is most expensive. The men have been obliged to go to local contractors, who could not hope to be paid for a very considerable time, and who, of course, in consequence added something to their price. We found it to be one of the great reasons for the corps running into debt that they were under the necessity of providing the clothing for their men on such unfortunate terms. I think I have suffiiciently indicated the direction of the Committee's recommendations in regard to clothing, and I now pass on to another matter. The main point, my Lords, to which the attention of the Committee was naturally directed, was whether the Capitation Grant was sufficient for the service. Your Lordships will allow me to read a few of the items in which the money of the Volunteers is spent. "Expenses at head-quarters, including the ordinary drills, the care and maintenance of arms, marches out, reviews, repairs of arms, gun and drill practices, payment of the permanent staff, band, refreshments, interest on loans, prizes, and expenses of Artillery training, expenses for national and county associations, payment for loss of time in camp, reading, gymnasium and recreation rooms, allowance for treasurers, quartermasters, &c, &c." I have just named a few of the items to show how vastly divergent are the claims which come on the Volunteers for their money, and how difficult it must be on the comparatively small sum of 30s., or a little over 30s. per annum per head, to keep a regiment quite clear of debt. Generally we found, in the great majority of corps, that the total military expense was in excess of the amount received from the War Office—it was only in a few instances that a corps was supported on what was received from the War Office. It would not be safe to assume that because a few corps kept within the amount of the Capitation Grant that the Capitation Grant was sufficient; nor was it safe to assume the converse of the proposition, 1173 and say that because only a few corps kept within the grant, the grant was necessarily insufficient. The Committee, therefore, came to the conclusion that the point could only be decided by a very detailed analysis of the Returns. They, therefore, first proceeded to determine, as a standard for their own guidance, what items of expense were in reality, necessary for the efficient maintenance of the corps, and which would, therefore, be properly chargeable against the public; and, secondly, whether the Capitation Grant was sufficient to cover the expenses which thus had been laid down as, in the opinion of the Committee, necessary. This the Committee thought it necessary to do, in order to establish which I may call a standard of comparison; and, keeping that standard in their own minds for their own guidance, they proceeded afresh to analyze the Returns of the expenses before them. When they came to that, they found that a very curious state of things was disclosed. They found that out of 278 corps that sent in the Returns, only 38 of these corps kept their total expenses within the amount of the Capitation Grant; while 240 exceeded the grant. But then a close examination of the figures in the Returns showed that, in a great majority of instances, the excess occurred in items not properly chargeable against the public; only 83 of the corps had exceeded the Capitation Grant in items which could be properly charged against the public; and upon that ground the Committee felt themselves bound to answer the question put to them, as to whether the Capitation Grant was not sufficient for legitimate purposes, and to say that they could not recommend any addition to the Capitation Grant. My Lords, I am perfectly well aware that to a great number of people the decision of the Committee will be a very great disappointment, and I can only thank your Lordships for having allowed me to enter into the details on the matter, because I felt that it was not only your Lordships I was addressing. And I wish to convey to the general body of Volunteers, as well as the public, the fact that the Committee which has been investigating their affairs was not appointed to register a foregone conclusion; but honestly to inquire whether or not the Capitation Grant was sufficient for its purpose, and to decide upon the 1174 evidence alone. The War Office felt that they were not in possession of the information which would enable them to satisfactorily settle that point, and the Committee which for 11 months has been sitting inquiring into this matter, has, in the most single-minded way, been directing its attention not to support a foregone conclusion, but to form their own conclusion on evidence brought before them; and therefore, though it may be a disappointment, and probably will be a disappointment, to a large number of Volunteers, to find that the Capitation Grant is not to be increased, and that the Committee have not been able to see their way to recommend that increase—they must remember that there were on that Committee more than one officer of 20 years' Volunteer experience—men who would be much more likely to err in the direction of leniency towards the Volunteer Force than in the way of stringency in refusing the increase which was possibly expected. But though the Committee recommend no increase in the money grant, they find that in practice the Capitation Grant will not be sufficient to keep up a corps, unless great economy is practised in the administration of the various corps. That economy must be attempted in clothing, in head-quarters, in rifle-ranges, and in various other matters. In respect to the matters of clothing and rifle ranges, the real panacea for existing evils, and the real way to reduce the expense and thus help in the due administration of the Capitation Grant with economy, is, I believe, consolidation. There were one or two items of expense—I think there were three items—which the Committee were of opinion could not be well borne out of the present Capitation Grant. But the Committee thought it would be better, as these items were necessary to keep up increased efficiency—to give a separate allowance for those items on condition of increased efficiency on the part of the Volunteers, rather than to add the money on to the Capitation Grant. One of these items was in the matter of camps. The Committee were of opinion—founded on evidence brought before them—the Committee arrived at the opinion that a week in camp was equal to nearly the drill of a year in forming the Volunteers. The men in camp are associated in considerable numbers; they 1175 are subjected during a period of some days to military regulation; they are under what practically amounts to military law; in fact, they perform all the duties of soldiers in camp, and learn to do soldiers' work. They are on the spot, and are available for drill at any time, and there is a sort of military atmosphere about the whole proceeding which is extremely essential to their military well-being; and, therefore, taking all these matters into consideration, the Committee are of opinion that if any additional amount was to be given to the Volunteers it ought to be given in the way of encouraging camps among them. The Committee have therefore recommended that view to the Government—subject, of course, to what may be done in the matter in "another place" when the Estimates are presented; and I think I may say that my right hon. and gallant Friend the Secretary of State for War is prepared to recommend the adoptino of the proposal of the Committee in that respect. The proposal is that for every man going into camp 2s. a-day shall be allowed, besides certain small travelling allowances. What the aggregate cost of this proposal will be it is impossible to tell until it actually comes into operation; for we cannot tell how many men will take advantage of the concession, and of what size and what number the camps will be. It is, however, a very substantial addition to the present allowance of the Volunteers in camp; and I have reason to believe, by the experience we have gained in the sittings of the Committee, that it will be a very satisfactory one to the Volunteers themselves. There were two other items—namely, "bands" and "interest on loans." With regard to the first subject, we thought it impossible directly to sanction bands, which are not recognized in any of the other Auxiliary Forces. But it is proposed to excuse bandsmen from musketry drill, which I believe will give considerable facility to the formation of bands. With regard to the interest on loans, under the new arrangement by which the uniform will be paid for out of the Capitation Grant, it is anticipated that the necessity for borrowing money for clothes will disappear, and consequently the "interest on loans" will disappear with it. I will not weary your Lordships by recapitulating all the recommendations of the Committee 1176 there were several other points which were inquired into—one was the condition of the old adjutants—that is, officers appointed previous to the new system, under which Volunteer adjutants are officers on full pay of the Army. These officers had a grievance, and those grievances were fully inquired into and investigated. I will not detain your Lordships with further detail; all further information will be found in the Papers which are laid on the Table of your Lordships' House. There was one point in regard to the medical officers, and the formation of a new medical department, on which the Committee have made certain recommendations. I will conclude by saying that it is only right that the Committee should bear their willing testimony to the general sound and efficient condition in which they found the Volunteers. It is a Force which has increased from year to year, and has always answered cheerfully every call made upon it. Some of the proposals of the Committee involve an expenditure of public money; and therefore, of course, these proposals will have to be discussed in "another place" before they can be looked upon as finally agreed to. In conclusion, I wish to remark that the recommendations of this Committee have been approved in principle by my right hon. and gallant Friend the Secretary of State for War, who, however, wishes to reserve to himself, as regards the details, a wide liberty of action if it should be necessary to exercise it. Within the limits I have mentioned he has generally approved of the principle of the recommendations of the Committee. I have now only to apologize to your Lordships for having detained you so long, and to thank you for the patient and courteous hearing which you have given me.
§ VISCOUNT CARDWELLsaid, he had listened with great pleasure to the greater part of the statement just made by the noble Viscount, and during almost the whole of it he thought he could agree with everything that had been said. In his concluding remarks, however, the House was told by the noble Viscount that the Secretary of State reserved to himself perfect latitude in regard both to principles and details; and, if that were the case, he did not understand what had been the use or advantage of making the statement at all. He 1177 did not see that their Lordships had much to thank the Government for; for all the questions that had been glanced at were questions exclusively for the other House of Parliament, which alone had jurisdiction in matters of finance. He understood, however, that, in so far as they had any power, their opinions would be asked. He would assume that the Committee had very carefully considered the question—that their recommendations would be communicated to their Lordships, and the grounds on which they were made; and, assuming that the opinions of their Lordships were to have some force, he was happy to agree with almost everything that the Committee appeared to have approved. As regarded the Force itself, he was happy to say that, in proportion as the Volunteers had had demands made upon them, they had most cheerfully responded. He had said more than once, in "another place," that when Englishmen undertook a duty they wished it to be a reality; that the Volunteers did not want to play at soldiers; and that to make their service substantial would be, not to diminish the inducement, but to increase it. They were a growing Force, and one of which the country had reason to be proud. He rejoiced extremely that the noble Viscount was proceeding on the lines of the localization system which he found before him. He did not think that a limit should be fixed to the Establishment of the Volunteers. What would have happened if they had placed a limit to the number of of the Force 20 years ago? It was still a growing institution, and it would be wise not to place a limit. He could not avoid referring to the death of General Peel, of which they had just heard, of which he might, in some sense, be considered the originator. Twenty years ago, General Peel wrote to the bench of magistrates, of which he (Viscount Cardwell) was a member, asking their support in the first formation of Volunteers. Who could have imagined, 20 years ago, that from the beginning, then so small, they would have seen in the first 20 years the present noble Force? He regretted General Peel had not lived to hear the approval given by Her Majesty's Government to the continuance of the Force. So far as he had collected from the statement of the 1178 noble Viscount what the Report was, he agreed with all the other recommendations of it; and he trusted that whoever might live another 20 years would see as favourable a result from their proposals as they now saw from those adopted 20 years ago from the Circular of General Peel.
§ EARL COWPERquite concurred with the noble Viscount that it would be a mistake to fix a limit to the numbers of the Volunteers. They had gone on steadily increasing, and it would be a damper now to tell the Force that no more of it was wanted—for that would be the practical effect of the recommendation. He regretted that it was decided the Volunteers should go into scarlet. They had worn gray for 20 years, and had become attached to it; and, at the same time, it should be remembered that the Regulars might not be well pleased to see the Volunteers presenting themselves in the professional colours of regularly trained soldiers. Moreover, there were many men who looked very well in gray who would not look well set up in scarlet. He was of opinion it would be better to proceed cautiously in the consolidation of administrative battalions. Some of them were composed of companies very far apart, and the internal arrangements, particularly the finances, were better managed by the captain on the spot than by the colonel at a distance. He was sorry to hear there was to be no increase in the grant, as officers at present had to be chosen for their pecuniary rather than for their military qualifications; but he was pleased that the position of Volunteers as a part of the defensive Force of the country was now regularly recognized, not only by the public, but by the Government.
§ LORD TRUROsaid, there were several points in the Report of the Committee which had been referred to that did not give anything like universal satisfaction to the friends of the Volunteer Force. One of those was the question of uniforms. Again, he thought the recommendation of the Committee on the subject of drills was not satisfactory. He thought many would be deterred from joining the Force if they were compelled to undergo 30 drills in two successive years; for it would be too great an interruption to their regular occupations. From all that he had 1179 heard from the noble Viscount that evening, he could come to no other conclusion than that the recommendations made would not, on the whole, be advantageous to the numerical force or to the military efficiency of the Volunteer Force.
§ VISCOUNT BURYreplied briefly, and, in so doing, reminded the House that he had brought the matter forward in an unofficial manner, believing that that would be the best mode of bringing the subject under the public attention.
§ EARL GRANVILLEpointed out, as a matter of procedure, that the noble Viscount who had just addressed the House had made two speeches based on a Paper not yet before their Lordships; while, earlier in the evening, the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs had deprecated any discussion upon another matter until Papers were laid before their Lordships. He thought the old Rules had better be adhered to.