§ EARL DE LA WARRrose to call attention to the Report of the Veterinary Department of the Privy Council for the past year, especially with reference to the transport of cattle; and to move for a Copy of Orders issued by the Privy Council upon that subject. The question of the transport of cattle by land and sea was one which had been brought before their Lordships more than once, and had been referred to in a Report of a Committee of the House of Commons in 1877. That Committee, among other things, recommended that a searching inquiry should be made into the subject of the transport of cattle between England and Ireland, including their treatment at the ports and on the voyage, and that stringent rules should be made and enforced regulating that traffic. The Privy Council, in consequence, framed and promulgated certain Regulations; but the Report of the Veterinary Department showed that, however good the Regulations might be, they had not produced the desired result. The Reports of the Inspectors bore testimony to the effect that as regarded accommodation on board ship, ventilation, proper landing-stages, and supply of water, the existing arrangements were quite insufficient, and that at the ports where they were landed after the voyage the cattle were subjected to considerable suffering from want of food, water, and fresh air, from overcrowding, and exposure to the weather. It was, therefore, evident that the instructions of the Privy Council were not carried out in the way they intended. Some improvement was also required in the transport 1219 of cattle from the United States and Canada to this country. The question was really a very serious one, deserving immediate consideration. The total import from those countries numbered 188,446 animals in 1878. When, as it appeared, 10,677 animals were thrown overboard, 1,210 were landed dead, and 718 had been so much injured that they were obliged to be killed when landed, it was difficult to suppose that the best mode of arranging the accommodation for these cattle could have been adopted, or that proper measures had been taken for their safety. He therefore wished to ask the noble Duke the Lord President of the Council, If he would lay the Rules and Regulations issued by the Privy Council applying to this subject on the Table of their Lordships' House? The subject, he thought, deserved some consideration. If, in these days, no means could be found by which these animals could be transported a distance of about 3,000 miles without losing about 6 per cent of the whole number shipped, it seemed to him they could not have made use of the best appliances which were available in such a case. He was inclined to think that the best remedy for the evil would be to fix, by legislation, the number of cubic feet that should be allowed to each animal, to regulate the proper mode of ventilation, and to make the supply of food and water compulsory. The Act should also impose a somewhat heavy penalty on the owners, managers, or others connected with the vessels which should bring cattle from Ireland and foreign ports with insufficient arrangements. He thought, in fact, that these persons should be licensed and subjected to severe penalties for infringing or neglecting the Regulations. He begged to move that there be laid before the House the Rules and Regulations issued by the Privy Council on this subject.
THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDONMy Lords, to the Motion of my noble Friend, which divides itself into two parts—namely, as to the condition of animals coming from Ireland, and the condition of those coming from the United States, I shall reply in a very few words. With regard to animals coming from Ireland, the noble Earl will see that the Report to which he alluded—that of Captain Tennant—was written previous to the Act of last year. Since that time I have been 1220 in constant communication with the Irish Government on the subject, and I have every reason to believe that the arrangements which have been made on both sides of the Channel have been very much improved since the date of that Report. I may also say that the matter inquired into and reported upon by Captain Tennant was also the subject of inquiry and report by an officer acting on behalf of the Irish Government. The noble Earl says he considers that there should be some definition in cubic feet of the space that should be allotted to each animal. Now, I think that upon reflection he will admit that this would be utterly impossible, because to legislate in that way would imply that every animal was of the same size. You could not say that the space which would be sufficient for a Kerry cow would also be sufficient for a short-horn bull. You could not lay down a provision that each of these animals should have a particular space set apart for it in the ship. With regard to the case of the United States, I also, when I read the Report, was struck with the great number of animals thrown overboard during the voyage, or which had not reached this country alive; although I am bound to say that I think the arrangements made by the carrying trade between this country and the United States are of a very excellent character. In any cases in which I considered it my duty to act under the powers which have been given by Act of Parliament, I have called the attention of those persons interested to the provisions of the Act. There was one case in which it was shown, on the arrival of the ship in this country, that the loss had occurred through the absence of ventilation, and I will state what was the answer I got before proceeding with the prosecution which I had intended to institute. I may say, here, that in other cases, not connected with the carrying trade between the United States and this country, I have instituted 14 prosecutions under the provisions of the Orders in Council, and have, in every instance, been successful in obtaining a verdict against the parties. But the answer I received from the parties in the particular case to which I have referred was such that I did not think I should be justified in prosecuting them. It was an answer from the shipowners to a letter addressed to them from the Privy Council, 1221 calling their attention to a breach of the Order, and it was this—
My attention is called to Article 5 (4) of the Transit of Animals Order, taking effect on 31st December, 1878. It is, however, but proper to state that I had already anticipated its provisions to the utmost within my power, as before the steamer sailed from Boston, on 19th December, 1878, the best procurable American experts in ventilation visited the vessel and ventilated her at the insurance companies' and owners' of the cattle own expense and to their satisfaction; but their calculations were disturbed and the machinery carried away through the frightful and extraordinary weather the steamer encountered in her homeward passage.It is a fact that, however well you may ventilate a ship, or whatever care you may take—although in fine weather these measures will prove effective—yet it may be found impossible, in the case of a ship suffering from severe and stormy weather, to have the provisions of the Act fully and properly carried out. This is the case even in passenger steamers. There may be cases, therefore, in which it would be unwise and unjust to prosecute persons who, while doing everything they could to carry out those provisions, yet, from some injury to the ship through stress of weather, find it impossible to do so. With regard to the Orders in Council regulating the transit of cattle by sea, they will be found in the Report which my noble Friend has quoted. They are contained in pages 100–103 of the Veterinary Department Report for 1878, which the noble Earl held in his hand, being set out in full in consequence of the 59th section of the Act passed last Session, which required that all Orders of Council made under the Act should be laid on the Table of the House annually. This is the answer I have to give to the noble Earl. There are no other Orders in Council relating to this subject than those he held in his hand.
§ Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.