ADDRESS FOR PAPERS. (Hansard, 4 July 1878)

§ EARL BEAUCHAMP
said, the Vivisection Act was passed in 1876. Last year, on the Motion of Mr. Mundella, certain Returns relating to that Act were presented to the House of Commons; and, although they were not also presented to the House of Lords, a copy of them would be found in their Lordships' Library. He understood that Returns on the same subject had again been moved for this year, and that they would contain more complete and detailed information than had previously been given. He would, therefore, suggest to the noble Earl, that it would be better for him to wait until those Returns were presented to the House of Commons; and then, if any further information was required, it would be for the noble Earl to move that it was expedient to add to them. With reference to the Reports of the Inspectors, which, under the Act, were required to be made to the Home Secretary and not to Parliament, there would be an objection to laying them upon the Table, because they were confidential documents. He thought their Lordships would see that, when gentlemen in the position of those Inspectors administered an Act of this nature, they had to make Reports of a character which it would be inexpedient should be brought before Parliament. If they were to be made public, the Reports would be framed in a different manner from that in which they were made at present, and the Secretary of State would be left without the same detailed information which he now possessed in consequence of the confidential nature of the documents.

§ LORD TRURO
thought the public were indebted to the noble Earl opposite (Earl Do La Warr) for bringing forward this question. Their Lordships were aware that, not long ago, a Royal Commission was appointed for the purpose 754 of inquiring into the extent of the practice of vivisection and into its general character; and also for the purpose of recommending any steps which might be considered desirable, in the public interest, in to control the enormities which were committed under that system. Upon a question which was not merely a scientific one, but one which partook very much of a humanitarian character, it seemed to him that it would have been extremely desirable to have appointed some other men on that Commission than two most notorious vivisectionists, a most ardent and experienced sportsman, and two or three officials who were more likely to look at the question from the point of expediency than from that of humanity. Certainly, however, the exposition of horrors which had been given in the Report of the Commission surpassed anything he had ever yet read. If anything was really intended to be answered by the appointment of the Commission, it was that the public should have some security that no more operations than were absolutely necessary should be performed. In order that no more horrors should be perpetrated than were absolutely necessary, it was essential that not only the names of the places licensed should be made known, but also those of the licensees and the Inspectors. In the evidence given before the Commission were the opinions either uniform or overwhelming in favour of vivisection? On the contrary, he thought nothing could be more contradictory than the views of the witnesses. A great number were of opinion that vivisection had done little or nothing for science; and many others thought that not a few of the conclusions arrived at through vivisection were erroneous. A more unsatisfactory basis for the recommendations of the Commission could not be conceived. He was aware that this was not the occasion for discussing the subject thoroughly; but he would not fail to take some future opportunity, if other noble Lords did not do so, of again bringing the question forward. He could not help expressing his opinion, that if the Report of the Commission was to have any good effect—if the public were to be re-assured on this subject—it would only be by showing them that these enormities were to be controlled by men in whom they had confidence, and not 755 merely by men who possessed the confidence of the Government.

LORD FORBES
thought the enormities arising from the practice of vivisection should cease altogether, or be kept within the most circumscribed limits. He congratulated Ireland that the Returns, as far as that country was concerned, were nil—that, in fact, there were no places licensed there for experimental performances on living animals. He almost wished he could say the same for England and Scotland. The time might come, he still trusted and thought, when many of the experiments would be done away with altogether; and when those that were necessary would be performed in one place for the whole of the United Kingdom. There was no necessity, in his opinion, for multiplying the number of such places. If there was a School of Vivisection in London, it would meet all requisite purposes. Of course, medical men would say that that would not be sufficient, and there would not be enough practice. This plea, however, was a great mistake, for what was wanted was not practice, but the result of the operations. He thought it a great pity that the Returns should not be more voluminous than they were, and that the animals operated on should not be specified.

§ EARL DE LA WARR
did not see why anything in connection with the Act should be kept secret; but as an assurance had been given that Returns would be laid before the House of Commons, he would withdraw his Motion. He regretted especially, however, that the Inspectors' Reports were not to be published. Surely nothing ought to be concealed? It was the very essence of the Act that the Reports should be made public; and there was nothing, in his opinion, to justify their suppression. The public interest was concerned in their publication; and on another occasion he would recur to the subject.