§ EARL DE LA WARRrose, pursuant to Notice, to ask whether Her Majesty's Government can, without inconvenience, give any information with reference to the terms of the Treaty of Peace to be 372 concluded at Adrianople between Russia and Turkey, especially as regards the proposed limits of Bulgaria and the war indemnity claimed by Russia—and said: My Lords, the uncertainty which exists with regard to the proposed terms of the Treaty between Russia and Turkey, the great importance of the issues involved to the interests of this country, and the anxiety—the natural anxiety—of the public mind, will, I hope, justify the course which I have taken in bringing this subject under your Lordships' notice. I have not hesitated to appeal to Her Majesty's Government at this moment, especially after hearing the words of my noble Friend at the head of the Government, recently uttered in your Lordships' House—words, as I understood them, giving assurance that not only would the Imperial and commercial interests of this country be protected in the East, but also that the honour, the influence, and the high position of this country in the Councils of Europe would be upheld. Your Lordships must be aware of the zealous endeavours which have been made by Her Majesty's Government to keep this country out of the desolating war which has been raging, and I believe that these endeavours are fully recognized on both sides of your Lordships' House. I believe I may say that there is a not less general consent that at the present crisis firmness and consistent action are most likely to secure the interests of peace. But, my Lords, there are questions which unhappily cannot always be solved by a peaceful issue. Such questions have lately caused, and still are causing, the greatest perplexities and the greatest anxieties to almost all the Powers of Europe. Two of these Powers have been engaged in deadly warfare, and one lies almost prostrate sueing for terms of peace. It is naturally an anxious question what are to be the terms of that peace; and it is a question we cannot but see, that involves very deeply the interests of this country. Various reports are abroad, and I trust that Her Majesty's Government may find it possible to give some information on this subject to your Lordships and the country which cannot be gathered from public sources. I might mention Bulgaria. Is that newly proposed vassal Province to be so enlarged as practically to annihilate the Turkish Empire in Europe? I believe when the terms of 373 peace were first put into the possession of Her Majesty's Government in June last, it was proposed that the Province of Bulgaria should be limited to the North side of the Balkans; but it was very shortly afterwards to include a district South of the Balkans. It appears now that it is to be extended on the South to Adrianople, or nearly so, and on the Western side to Salonica. It is manifest that this will include the passes of the Balkans, and the important fortresses which have hitherto been regarded as the protection of Turkey. If this is to be one of the terms of the Treaty of Peace, I would ask what is to become of Turkey? Where will Turkey be? It must, to all practical purposes, be assimilated with the great Northern Power, which will then reach from the Arctic Circle, unless it is checked, to the shores of the Mediterranean. There is great reason to apprehend that we are on the eve of witnessing this, unless this country should be awakened to a sense of the danger. Turkey can no longer resist, and must sink under an overwhelming and crushing power, unless support be given to her. The terms of peace must be whatever terms Russia may extort by force. If this were a question which concerned Turkey only, perhaps it might be regarded from another point of view. But I look upon it as a question which most deeply concerns the interests of this country—whether so large a portion of Turkey in Europe is to be placed, as practically it would be placed, in such a position as to fall more or less under the influence and power of Russia. Then, my Lords, as regards the war indemnity. I know it may be said that this is a matter for the country which is backed by a victorious army to decide. So it may be; but if it is to be an indemnity so heavy that it would be almost impossible for Turkey to pay it, the occupation of Turkey by Russian troops till it is paid will probably take place; and that seems to me a question which deeply concerns this and other countries of Europe. Connected with the question of indemnity is that of the Turkish Fleet. Is the Turkish Fleet to form a portion of the indemnity? My noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Affairs stated last night that he was not able to give certain information upon this point. I trust that my noble Friend 374 will be able to inform your Lordships this evening that no portion of the Turkish Fleet will be ceded to Russia. Then I might refer to the question of Asia. There are to be large cessions of territory on that side. It is believed that the principal fortresses and several seaports of Asia are to be given up to Russia. So far, that would appear to place Turkey in Asia very much in the hands of Russia. Whether or not the Treaty has been signed—and I hope that my noble Friend may be able to inform your Lordships that it has—it is, I think—so far, at least, as we are in possession of the facts of the case—pretty clear that, as at present arranged, the object in view is not a partiton of Turkey, but to bring the whole of Turkey under Russian influence and Russian rule. Can this extension of Russian power and Russian influence be viewed without apprehension, both as regards this country and the future peace of Europe? To settle these weighty questions, it is proposed that there should be a Conference; but under what circumstances will that Conference be held? I would ask your Lordships to consider whether, with a victorious army virtually, if not actually, in possession of the Turkish capital, the chief business of the Conference is not likely to be to endorse the onerous demands of Russia? I have touched very briefly upon a few points bearing upon this important subject; but I trust that Her Majesty's Government may be in a position to give your Lordships such information as to the terms of the Treaty of Peace which has been or is about to be signed between Russia and Turkey, especially as regards the proposed limits of Bulgaria and the war indemnity claimed by Russia, as will enable your Lordships to give immediate consideration to it.
§ THE EARL OF DERBYMy Lords, I quite sympathize with the anxiety which my noble Friend expresses in respect of the terms of the Treaty which is about to be concluded between Russia and Turkey. I say about to be concluded, because, although we understood from previous statements, that the signatures were to have been affixed yesterday, yet up to the time at which I left the Foreign Office this afternoon no information had reached me to the effect that the signature had actually taken place. I regret, therefore, that I am not 375 able to satisfy my noble Friend's natural and reasonable anxiety for information on this matter—not because of any unwillingness on my part to give it, but because I do not possess it in a correct and authentic form. I have seen two or three versions of what are stated to be the terms of peace; but though, as was to be expected, there is a general agreement between them, they differ in some very important details, and I am not in a position to decide which of the conflicting versions which I have seen is most entitled to the credit of accuracy. I think, however, it may be taken as a matter beyond dispute that it is intended to constitute a very large Province of Bulgaria, extending far to the South of the Balkans, and to within a short distance of the Ægean Sea. Whether Salonica is to be included within the proposed Province, as my noble Friend suggests, is one of those points on which the reports differ. And so, again, with regard to the important question of the war indemnity, the accounts do not agree. I have seen in the newspapers a statement that an enormous—I may say fabulous—sum is intended to be demanded—something between £150,000,000 and £200,000,000 sterling. Well, my Lords, the improbability of such a demand is apparent, because it is perfectly obvious that under no circumstances could such a sum be paid by Turkey. A statement that I have seen speaks of a demand of something like £40,000,000 sterling, which, as I understand, is to be independent of the demand for a cession of territory. That appears a more probable version, but I cannot guarantee the accuracy of that statement. Those, I think, are the points on which my noble Friend asks for information. There cannot be a more important or a fitter subject of discussion in this House and elsewhere than the conditions of peace when we are in a position to discuss them; but I think your Lordships will perceive that it would be wasting your time to discuss those terms of peace when in reality we do not know with any degree of accuracy what they are.
§ House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.