§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, before the House separates for the Recess I have to make a short statement, which I should much rather not have to make, but which I cannot properly abstain from laying before your Lordships. Shortly before I came down to the House this afternoon I saw the Austrian Ambassador, who represented to me that words used by my noble Friend Lord Derby, a week ago, have caused so much pain to persons of high authority in the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, and especially to the officers of the Army of that Monarchy, that he thought some words uttered by me in this House, before the House separated, would be pleasing to those to whom the observations that were used apply, and would, on general grounds, also be desirable. My Lords, if I had had an opportunity, I should have been glad to have spoken to my noble Friend Lord Derby before making such reference, but the time that remained would not allow it. My noble Friend is reported to have said, that a portion of the Austrian Army, distinguished by its Slav nationality, could not be trusted to fight against the Russians. I have no recollection that my noble Friend said that; but it is imputed to him in some reports, and the reports differ on the subject. But, whether he said it or not—if he said it at all—whatever observations he made with respect to the Austro-Hungarian Army, or the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, were made on his own responsibility alone. As far as I can make out, there is nothing in the Foreign Office on which such observations could have been founded. They were his own 1363 expressions as an individual Member of Parliament, and in no way bore any reflection from his recent official position. And they are sentiments—and I may apply the same observations to what was said of the French Government—which are in no way shared by Her Majesty's Government.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLMy Lords, I listened to Lord Derby's speech the other night very attentively, and I certainly did not understand him to say that the Austro-Hungarian Army would never fight.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYOnly a part of it.
THE DUKE OF ARGYLLOr only a part of it. What I understood him to argue was, that there were circumstances which made it improbable that Austria would take an armed part against Russia.
LORD DENMANrecollected that the late Foreign Secretary, in his speech, expressed an opinion that any reliance on Austra would be very little trustworthy, and he (Lord Denman) referred to the intercourse of Sir Robert Murray Keith, as Ambassador at Vienna; he also referred to the year 1762, when, in a case which reminded him of the present state of Constantinople, that distinguished man—in an interview with Count Shouwaloff, Chancellor of the Russian Empire—who had believed it possible for the Czarina to conquer and retain Prussia—said that their keeping that Province would be a perpetual object of jealousy to other Powers, and a source of troubles in Europe, as there was not a single Power in it but had an essential interest in preventing it; or if, by some great fatality, it could not at present be hindered, to join with the rest in laying hold of the first opportunity of wresting it out of their hands. Monsieur Shouwaloff could not see that the possession of so small a Province should give jealousy to the rest of Europe, ending with this—that it might, at least, be left in their hands, as a deposit, till other means of indemnification could be found. Sir Robert Murray Keith replied, that neither keeping it in possession or deposit was even to be thought of; and, that if either of them were ever seriously proposed, it would give cause of much jealousy to all the world, as it would indicate clearly a design in Russia to make herself mistress of the naviga- 1364 tion of the Baltic, and, consequently, to engross to herself the whole commerce of the North. He (Lord Denman) reminded their Lordships that Russia wished to be Depositary of the Principalities in 1853. He had alluded, on almost the last day of last Session, to a despatch issued on that morning, in which an Ambassador or Minister had agreed with the Earl of Derby that the occupation of Constantinople could not be viewed with indifference. He (Lord Denman) also said, on that occasion, that he might apply to fanatical wars the words of Cowper—
Let active laws supply the needful curb,To guard the peace which riot would disturb.In these days, when collisions of steamers sent two vessels at once to the bottom, and when conflicts were like a duel across a pocket-handkerchief—only on a large scale—he hoped that war might be avoided; but Treaties must be well considered, and, either with or without modification, be observed.