Lords Sitting of 15 May 1877

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Oyster and Mussel Fisheries Orders Confirmation (73), and referred to the Examiners; Married Women's Property Act (1870) Amendment (74); Norfolk and Suffolk Fisheries, and referred to the Examiners.
Second Reading—High Court of Justice (Costs) (36), discharged; Public Libraries Act (Ireland) Amendment (65).
Committee—Settled Estates (49); Solicitors Examination, &c. (52–76).
Report—South Africa (67-77)
Third Reading—Removal of Wrecks (59).

SOUTH AFRICA BILL.
(The Earl of Carnarvon.)
SOUTH AFRICA BILL.

  [NO. 67.] REPORT OF AMENDMENTS.
  Amendments reported (according to Order).
  On Motion of Earl of CARNARVON, Clause added, after Clause 48—
  (Appropriation, &c. of provincial revenue.)
  "It shall not be lawful for the council of any province to adopt or pass any vote, resolution, address, or law for the appropriation of any part of provincial revenue, or of any tax or
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  impost, to any purpose that has not first been recommended to the council by the chief executive officer."
  On Motion of Earl of CARNARVON, to Clause 63 after ("Union") Proviso added—
  ("Provided always, that no Act of the said Union Parliament shall extend or be construed to extend to take away or abridge the undoubted right and authority of Her Majesty, her heirs and successors, upon the humble petition of any person or persons aggrieved by any judgment, decree, order, or sentence of the said General Court of Appeal, to admit his, her, or their appeal to Her Majesty in Council from any rule, judgment, decree, order, or sentence upon such terms and securities, limitations, restrictions, and regulations as Her Majesty in Council, her heirs and successors, shall think fit.")
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONmoved to insert, after Clause 69, a clause empowering Her Majesty in Council to authorize annexation to Cape or Natal, of territories in South Africa, forming part of Her Majesty's possesions, but not already included in either Colony. The noble Earl said the main object of the Bill was to secure a Confederation of the British Colonies in South Africa by their own consent; but the time at which the desired union might be effected might be more or less distant; and in the meanwhile there might arise a pressing necessity of making provision for the good government of territories which were under the dominion of Her Majesty, although not included in the proposed union. Though on the previous evening he had had the satisfaction of announcing to their Lordships satisfactory intelligence in reference to the annexation of the Transvaal, still the state of things was necessarily such that it was desirable to take every precaution. For this reason he had thought it advisable to frame the clause which he now proposed; but the clause contained a provision that no Proclamation for such annexation should be issued until the Legislature of the Colony to which territory was to be annexed should have passed a law providing that the particular territory should become part of the Colony. He might add that within the last fortnight the Legislature of Cape Colony had passed a law in favour of the union of Griqualand with that Colony. The Bill, therefore, as it now stood provided for the admission into the Union of any Colony, State, or Territory applying to be admitted; next, it

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  would give power for the annexing of territory to Cape Colony or the Colony of Natal; and, lastly, it gave power to divide the Union into such provinces, with such names and boundaries, as the Queen might direct. He might observe that there was now before Parliament a large volume of Papers on this subject covering the transactions of 1876, and dealing with the delicate relations which during the whole of that time had prevailed between the Dutch State of the Transvaal and the Zulus on its eastern frontier. He hoped it would be in his power shortly to produce a shorter, but not less important, volume, which would carry on the history of the war from the beginning of 1877 to the present date; and this volume would also contain the authority under which Sir Theophilus Shepstone had acted. As soon as there was sufficient matter for the House to pronounce an opinion upon, it should be laid upon the Table. He thought it right to observe that he had noticed that a question had been raised whether the annexation of the Zulu country was likely to follow upon the annexation of the Transvaal. There was no wish whatever on his part for any such annexation—on the contrary, he should strongly deprecate it. The time would doubtless come when it would become necessary; but, for the present, he would sooner trust to the gradual influence of British laws and civilization under the reasonable sway of England, so as to make the border safe—and. he considered that the risk of our being compelled under existing circumstances to take over the Zulu country was lessened rather than increased by the annexation of the Transvaal, because the real danger and difficulty had arisen from the frequent encroachments of the Boers upon the Zulu territory.
  Moved to insert, after Clause 69, new Clause —
  (Power to Her Majesty to authorize annexation to Cape or Natal of certain territories.)
  "It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, to authorize the Governor for the time being of the Cape of Good Hope or of Natal, by proclamation, to declare that the whole or any portion or portions of any territories in South Africa forming part of Her Majesty's possessions, but not already included in either of the last-mentioned colonies, shall be
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  annexed to and form part of such colonies or either of them, and the said territories or portions shall be annexed accordingly; provided always, that no such proclamation shall he issued until the Legislature of the colony to which such territories are to be annexed shall have passed a law providing that the said territories shall become part of the colony."—(The —Earl of Carnarvon.)
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYapproved the clause. He presumed that if Her Majesty's Government contemplated annexing the Transvaal to one of the two Colonies now organized in South Africa, that step would not be made before it was ascertained that such annexation would be agreeable to the feelings and wishes of the Dutch inhabitants. He was glad to hear that Griqualand was likely to be annexed to the Cape Colony, and he rejoiced to hear from his noble Friend that he did not regard the annexation of Zululand to the British dominions as a desirable measure. We had enough of South African territory on our hands at present—especially with the most recent annexation—and it would be a real misfortune if we should have to interfere with the independence of the Zulu tribes. Zululand was inhabited by a singularly independent and warlike race; but under the admirable management of Sir Theophilus Shepstone our relations with that race had long been of a most friendly character. There was a large independent territory between Cape Colony and the Colony of Natal, and he thought it quite possible to preserve friendly relations with the inhabitants of that territory without interfering with their independence.
  Clause agreed to, and inserted in the Bill.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, he would take that opportunity of answering a Question which was put to him the other evening by his noble Friend (the Earl of Belmore), who asked why there was not in this Bill some power to the Governor to issue moneys out of the Treasury; and his noble Friend said he asked that Question in consequence of a difficulty which had occurred in New South Wales. The facts of that case were, that in the Constitutional Act of New South Wales there was a clause which required that all public moneys should be issued upon the warrant of the Governor, it having rested in the Treasurer. A Vote was passed in the Parlia-

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  ment which was not strictly in accordance with the law; and his noble Friend who was at that time Governor of New South Wales, exercised his discretion by not issuing his warrant. That was objected to by his Ministry. His noble Friend referred the matter to this country, and he was supported by the Government of the day. The difference between the two cases was this—that in that case there was a clause requiring the warrant of the Governor, while in this Bill there was no such clause; and therefore the difficulty which arose in New South Wales could not arise in South Africa.
  THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid, that his Question was how, there being no such clause in this Bill, the public moneys would be issued? as they must be issued by some authority. If not by the warrant of the Governor it must be by some other officer, otherwise the moneys could not be paid out of the Treasury.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONapprehended that there would be no difficulty, as they could be issued by oral instruction.

OYSTER AND MUSSEL FISHERIES ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL [H.L.]
A Bill to confirm an order made by the Board of Trade under The Sea Fisheries Act, 1868, relating to Falmouth—Was presented by The Lord ELPHINSTONE; read 1a, and referred to the Examiners. (No. 73.)
MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY ACT (1870)

  AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the Married Women's Property Act (1870)—Was presented by The Lord COLERIDGE; read 1a. (No. 74.)
  House adjourned at a quarter past Six o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.