Lords Sitting of 20 March 1877

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Second Report—Office of the Clerk of the Parliaments and Office of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod. (No. 33.)
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Exchequer Bills and Bonds (£700,000)*.
Third Reading—Beer Licences (Ireland)* (23), and passed.

ARMY—AUXILIARY FORCES — THE MILITIA.

  ADDRESS FOR RETURNS.
  THE MARQUESS OF EXETERmoved an Address for Returns, showing (in a form annexed)—

  "(1.) The strength of each Militia Regiment in the United Kingdom on the 1st of January 1876 and on the 1st of January 1877:

  "(2.) The number of recruits obtained between those dates by each Regiment; the number given by each to the Line under its different branches:

  "(3.) The number discharged as medically unfit, those who have deserted, and those who have been promoted or transferred to other Regiments:

  "(4.) The total increase or decrease in 1876."

  THE EARL OF LIMERICKsuggested an addition to the Returns.
  EARL CADOGANsaid, there was no objection to the Returns moved for by the noble Marquess. He could not promise the addition suggested by the noble Earl (the Earl of Limerick), but would endeavour to supply it.
  Motion agreed to.

RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.—QUESTION.

  OBSERVATIONS.
  LORD COTTESLOEinquired, when the Notice with respect to the Report of the Royal Commission on Railway Accidents is brought before the House, Whether it is proposed to conclude with a Motion, or to submit any Resolutions to the consideration of the House? He thought the House was indebted to the noble Lord (Viscount Bury) for having given Notice that he would bring the subject forward, for the question was one which well deserved consideration. All Her Majesty's subjects were interested in the subject, and the House had already taken some action in regard to it, for it was at their suggestion that the Railway Commission was appointed. A great deal of important evidence had been taken by the Commission, and a discussion on the Report would not fail to elicit valuable statements from noble Lords in that House who had much acquaintance with the working of railways. It was highly desirable in the interests of the public that action should be taken on the Report as soon as possible; and, therefore, he was of opinion that the noble Lord would much enhance the value of the discussion that was likely to ensue when he gave effect to his Notice if he submitted his conclusions in the shape of a Motion.
  VISCOUNT BURYsaid, that originally it was not his intention to conclude with a Motion. It had been generally understood by those interested in the matter that some legislation would be proposed on the subject, and it was his special wish that no legislation should be made until there had been a very full discussion of the whole matter. However, since he gave his Notice noble Lords more experienced than himself had communicated with him, and had pointed out that a discussion on a statement not concluding with a Motion was likely to be of a character rather too desultory,

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  and would travel over too much ground. Under these circumstances, he should be prepared to put Notice of a Motion on the Paper; not, however, to obtain any triumph for any views which he might entertain, but rather to secure that a comprehensive and full discussion should be had on the subject which he would have the honour of bringing under the notice of their Lordships' House. Perhaps he might say that he had received communications from noble Lords, some of them members of the Royal Commission, stating that they would be unable to be in their places till after the Easter Recess. Accordingly, he would name the 27th of April for the Motion, and before their Lordships separated for the Recess he would put his Resolution on the Notice Paper.

ARMY REFORMS—REPORT ON ARMY RETIREMENT.—QUESTION.
VISCOUNT TEMPLETOWNasked the Under Secretary for War, Whether the Report on the Army Retirement scheme would be brought before the House sufficiently early to admit of a full discussion of details before the close of the Session? He was satisfied that whatever might be their individual objections, officers would more readily receive as a settlement of the question any scheme which would be approved by Parliament after a full discussion.
EARL CADOGANsaid, that he had some difficulty in answering the Question of the noble and gallant Viscount. He rather thought that the noble and gallant Viscount had in some manner confounded two Reports which were entirely different the one from the other. The one was the Report of a Royal Commission issued last year; the other was that of a War Office Committee appointed to examine into various questions connected with Militia and Brigade Depôts. The Report of the Royal Commission had been brought before the House in the only way it could have been brought before them. He laid it on the Table on the 7th of August last, and he understood that it was in the hands of their Lordships on the 14th of the same month. Ever since it was issued, the Secretary of State for War had been maturing and revising a scheme of promotion and retirement founded on the recommenda-
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tions of the Commission. The subject was a difficult and intricate one, involving various calculations and requiring anxious consideration. The proposals of the Secretary of State were, however, in an advanced state of preparation; but he could not say when the work would be completed. As soon as the scheme was finally arranged and had received the approval of the other Departments interested in it, the Secretary of State would lay it before the other House of Parliament. As it would deal with matters of finance it was necessary that it should be introduced in the other House; but, he (Earl Cadogan) would at the same time take the earliest opportunity of explaining it to their Lordships.
House adjourned at half-past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.