§ Order for Committee read.
§ EARL FORTESCUEexpressed his regret that owing to indisposition he had been unable to be present on the second reading. He now wished to express his general approval of the Bill, and his hope that Her Majesty's Government, encouraged by the success which had attended their efforts to codify the sanitary legislation of the country, would persevere until they had reduced to order and system the chaotic mass of Poor Law legislation which had accumulated since the passing of the new Poor Law in 1834. He would remind their Lordships that in the discussion on the second reading, the question was raised by several noble Lords as to the expediency of making Unions coterminous with counties. A Return when presented to Parliament in 1869, showed that out of 760 Unions in England, 590 were wholly in counties, and 170 were as to their great bulk in the counties—that was to say, not comprising more than a few parishes which were in two or more counties. The question of having Unions coterminous with counties would be a very difficult one to deal with. He thought the powers proposed to be conferred on the Boards of Guardians by the clauses comprehended under the division of "Poor Law Amendments" were so many steps in the right direction.
§ House in Committee.
§ Clauses 1 to 32, inclusive, agreed to, with Amendments.
§ EARL FORTESCUEmoved, after Clause 32, to insert a new clause, having, for its object the granting of medical relief, in urgent cases of accident or disease, on loan—that was to say, where the circumstances of the family or individual were not fully known at the time, the Guardians should pay for the medical relief, and obtain payment when the person or family relieved could afford to discharge the debt. Now, if a relieving officer gave an order for medical relief, and the Guardians did not afterwards sanction it, the medical practitioner could sue the relieving officer for the debt, and that became a matter of great hardship. The course which he now proposed would prevent many persons from becoming pauperized.
§ Moved, after Clause 32 to insert new clause—
"Where medical relief is granted on loan, the guardians may declare that the same is so granted, and they may recover from the person to whom such, relief is granted the reasonable cost of the same as if it were money relief granted on loan."
THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDONsaid, that he could not accept the clause, as he thought the present law enabled the Guardians to do all that was necessary.
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYthought that many persons now obtained medical relief, who were perfectly well able to pay for the advice and medicine given.
§ After some discussion, in which Lord Henniker, Lord Winmarleigh, and Lord Egerton of Tatton took part,
THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDONwas understood to say that though he would not promise that any alteration in the clause could be made, yet he would before the Report consider the question again, and see whether anything could be done.
§ Amendment, by leave of the Committee, withdrawn.
§ EARL FORTESCUEmoved to insert another new clause—
All medical or other relief given or ordered by the relieving officer or overseers in cases of emergency during the interval between the meet- 1473 ings of the board of guardians shall be deemed to have been given on loan and be recoverable accordingly, unless either disallowed or allowed as relief by the board of guardians at their first or subsequent meeting.'
THE DUKE OF RICHMOND AND GORDONsaid, he objected to the clause on the same ground as he had objected to the previous one—namely, that the Guardians had now full power to do everything which, the Amendment would enable them to do.
§ Amendment, by leave of the Committee, withdrawn.
§ Remaining Clauses agreed to, with Amendments.
§ The Report of the Amendments to be received on Thursday next, and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 181.)