Lords Sitting of 14 August 1876

MINUTES.
Public Bills—Second Reading—Committee negatived—Third Reading—Chairmen's Jurisdiction (Ireland)* (235);Norwich and Boston Corrupt Voters* (234); Pensions Commutation Act Amendment* (236).
Third Reading—Bow Street Police Court (Site)* (228); Expiring Laws Continuance* (229); Sheriff Courts (Scotland)* (222); Legal Practitioners* (220); Suez Canal (Shares)* (221); War Department and Post Office (Remuneration, &c.)* (219); Consolidated Fund (Appriation),* and passed.

MERCHANT SHIPPING BILL.

  CONSIDERATION OF COMMONS AMENDMENTS TO LORDS AMENDMENTS.
  Commons Amendments to Lords Amendments, and Commons Reason for disagreeing to certain of the Amendments made by the Lords considered (according to Order).
  Amendments and Reason read as follows:—
  "Page 12. In Clause (A.) added by the Lords, line 4, after ("satisfied") insert ("by the production of a foreign certificate of survey attested by a British consular officer at the port of survey").
  "Line 5. After ("and") insert ("are satisfied") and at the end of the clause insert ("provided that Her Majesty may by Order in Council direct that this section shall not apply in the case of an official survey at any foreign port at which it appears to Her Majesty that corresponding provisions are not extended to British ships").

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  "Page 13. Line 5. The Commons propose to restore the word ("such") omitted by the Lords.
  "Page 14. In Clause (C.) added by the Lords, line 1. the Commons propose to leave out ("January") and insert ("November"), and in line 2, to leave out ("seventy-seven") and insert ("seventy-six").
  "The Commons disagree to the omission of the words ("under eighty tons register") in page 12. line 24.and lines 38. and 39.
  "Because it is desirable that the provisions relating to deck and load lines should be made applicable to coasting vessels above eighty tons."
  Amendments agreed to.
  Moved, "Not to insist on the Amendments to which the Commons have disagreed."—(The Lord President.)
  Question put, Whether to insist on the said Amendments?
  Resolved in the Negative.
  Moved, "In lieu thereof to insert the following Clause as a consequential Amendment after Clause 23:—
  "With respect to the marking of a load line on British ships employed in the coasting trade, the following provisions shall have effect:

  "(1.) The owner of every British ship employed in the coasting trade on the coasts of the United Kingdom (except ships under eighty tons register employed solely in that trade) shall, before proceeding to sea from any port, mark upon each of her sides amidships, or as near thereto as is practicable, in white or yellow on a dark ground, or in black on a light ground, a circular disc, twelve inches in diameter, with a horizontal line eighteen inches in length drawn through its centre:

  "(2.) The centre of this disc shall indicate the maximum load-line in salt water to which the owner intends to load the ship until notice is given of an alteration:

  "(3.) He shall also, once in every twelve months, immediately before the ship proceeds to sea, send or deliver to the collector or other principal officer of customs of the port of registry of the ship, a statement in writing of the distance in feet and inches between the centre of the disc and the upper edge of each of the lines indicating the position of the ship's decks which is above that centre:

  "(4.) The owner, before the ship proceeds to sea after any renewal or alteration of the disc, shall send or deliver to the collector or other principal officer of customs of the port of registry of the ship notice in writing of such renewal or alteration, together with such statement in writing as before mentioned of the distance between the centre of the disc and the upper edge of each of the deck lines:

  "(5.) If default is made in sending or delivering any notice or statement required by this section to be sent or delivered, the owner shall
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  be liable to a penalty not exceeding one hundred pounds:

  "(6.) When a ship has been marked as by this section required, she shall be kept so marked until notice is given of an alteration."—(The Lord President.)

  On Question? Resolved in the Affirmative.
  Message sent to the House of Commons, To acquaint them, That the Lords do not insist upon their Amendments to which the Commons disagree, and agree to the Amendments made by the Commons to the Amendments made by the Lords to the said Bill, with a consequential Amendment, to which they desire the concurrence of the Commons.

  COMMERCIAL TREATY WITH ROUMANIA.—QUESTION.
  LORD CAMPBELLrose to ask, Whether a document which has recently appeared in The Morning Post as a letter from the Foreign Office to the Secretary of the Manchester Chamber of Commerce is authentic? The noble Lord said: The letter must have appeared in the first week of August, but I am not sure on what day as it was communicated to me in an extract. It is dated July 29th, signed Julian Pauncèfote. Its substance is, if I interpret it correctly, that the Foreign Office are prepared to negotiate directly a Commercial Treaty with Roumania, in imitation of the Austrian example, of which so much was heard last Session. After the opinions I have ventured to express upon the subject, it was not possible for me to pass the statement perfectly unquestioned. But I did not wish unguardedly or hastily to assume it to be genuine, as it has not appeared in any Papers given to the House. The Question is intended rather to elicit facts than to convey oblique or premature reflection on the conduct of the Foreign Office. Although the letter has some marks of authenticity, it seems improbable on the face of it that the Foreign Office should decidedly abandon the ground on which they stood last year; even in deference to a commercial body whose importance is admitted. It seems to be improbable that even if a market was endangered some better method of retaining it would not have been arrived at. Even if a prohibitory duty was impending from

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  Rumania, one would think the diplomatic mind might reach a better counter project than capitulation on a principle so recently maintained as indispensable to Treaties. One could not readily assume that with the talents and resources which the Foreign Office is well known to possess, on a point so grave, a vassal Principality should be able to checkmate them by any menace it resorted to. I therefore framed the Question in the way in which I put it.
  THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, I need hardly say, in answer to the Question, that the document to which the noble Lord refers is authentic and accurate in its terms. With regard to the question of policy which has been raised, if the noble Lord had been acquainted with all the facts of the case I do not think he would have taken the view which he appears to take. He has spoken of a reversal of our former policy on the question, but there really has been nothing of the kind. What has happened is this—When the discussion occurred on the subject of a Commercial Treaty with Rumania last year, I said all along that upon grounds of policy I had no objection to the negotiation of such a Treaty, but that our sole objection was that, according to our view of the construction placed upon existing Treaty arrangements, the Porte had a right to object, and therefore such a Treaty ought not to be concluded without the consent of the Porte; and I say the same now. If the Porte is willing, however, to give way, I see now, as I saw then, in point of policy no reason why it should not do so, nor do I think that any injury would accrue to the Turkish Empire in consequence. Communications have passed on the subject, and the result is that while, from considerations which I need not enter into, the Porte is unwilling to make any formal or official change in the relations between it and Roumania, yet, seeing the difficulties of the case, and having been either unable or unwilling to prevent other Powers from negotiating such Treaties, the Porte has waived the objections which it entertained, and we understand that no impediment will be raised on its part to the conclusion of a Treaty of this kind. That removes the only obstacles which stood in the way, and, therefore, negotiations are going on.

JUDICIAL BUSINESS OF THIS HOUSE.

  ORDER.
  Moved by the Lord Chancellor—
  "To resolve, That this House do meet on Tuesday the 21st of November next for the purpose of hearing and determining Appeals and Matters connected therewith, pursuant to the provisions of 'The Appellate Jurisdiction Act, 1876.' "
  Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

JUDICIAL BUSINESS OF THIS HOUSE.

  STANDING ORDERS.
  Moved by the LORD CHANCELLOR—
  "To resolve, That the following Standing Orders do regulate all Appeals presented to the House on and after the 1st day of November 1876:
  "Standing ORDER I.
  "Ordered, that, except where otherwise provided by Statute, no petition of appeal be received by this House unless the same be lodged in the Parliament Office for presentation to the House within one year from the date of the last decree, order, judgment, or interlocutor appealed from.
  "In cases in which the person entitled to appeal be within the age of one and twenty years, or covert, non compos mentis, imprisoned, or out of Great Britain and Ireland, such person may be at liberty to present his appeal to the House, provided that the same be lodged in the Parliament Office within one year next after full age, disc overture, coming of sound mind, enlargement out of prison, or coming into Great Britain or Ireland: But in no case shall any person or persons be allowed a longer time, on account of mere absence, to present an appeal, than five years from the date of the last decree, order, judgment, or interlocutor appealed against.—[* Applicable to all Decrees, &c. pronounced on and after the 1st day of November 1876.]
  "Standing ORDER II.
  "Ordered, that all petitions of appeal be signed, and the reasonableness thereof certified, by two counsel who shall have attended as counsel in the court below, or shall purpose attending as counsel at the hearing in this House.
  "Standing ORDER III.
  "Ordered, that the 'order of service' issued upon the presentation of an appeal for service on the respondent or his solicitor, be returned to the Parliament Office, together with an affidavit of due service entered thereon, within the time limited for the appellant to lodge his printed cases, unless within that period all the Respondents shall have lodged their printed cases; in default, the appeal to stand dismissed.
  "Standing Order IV.
  "Ordered, in all appeals that the Appellant or Appellants do give security to the Clerk of the Parliaments by recognizance to be entered into,

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  in person or by substitute, to the Queen of the penalty of five hundred pounds, conditioned to pay to the Respondent or Respondents all such costs as may he ordered to he paid by the House in the matter of the appeal; and further, that the Appellant or Appellants do procure two sufficient sureties, to the satisfaction of the Clerk of the Parliaments, to enter into a joint and several bond to the amount of two hundred pounds, or do pay in to the account of the Fee Fund of the House of Lords the sum of two hundred pounds; such bond, or such sum of two hundred pounds, to be subject to the Order of the House with regard to the costs of the appeal: Ordered, that within one week after the presentation of the appeal the Appellant or Appellants do pay in to the account of the Fee Fund of the House of Lords the said sum of two hundred pounds, or submit to the Clerk of the Parliaments the names of the sureties proposed to enter into the said bond; and, in the event of a substitute being proposed to enter into the said recognizance, the name of such substitute; two clear days previous notice of the names so proposed for bond and recognizance to be given to the Solicitor or Agent of the Respondent: Ordered, that the said bond and the recognizance (whether entered into by the Appellants or by a substitute) be returned to the Parliament Office duly executed within one week from the date of the issue thereof to the Solicitor or Agent of the Appellant or Appellants. On default by the Appellant or Appellants in complying with the above conditions, the appeal to stand dismissed.
  "Standing Order V.
  "1. Ordered, that in English appeals the printed cases and the appendix thereto be lodged in the Parliament Office within six weeks from the date of the presentation of the appeal to the House; in Scotch and Irish appeals, within eight weeks; and the appeal set down for hearing on the first sitting day after the expiration of those respective periods (or as soon before, at the option of either party, as all the printed cases and the appendix shall have been lodged); on default by the Appellant the appeal to stand dismissed.
  "2. Ordered, that in all Appeals from Scotland the Appellant alone, in his printed case or in the appendix thereto, shall lay before this House a printed copy of the record as authenticated by the Lord Ordinary; together with a supplement containing an account, without argument or statement of other facts, of the further stops which have been taken in the cause since the record was completed, and containing also copies of the interlocutors or parts of interlocutors complained of; and each party shall in their cases lay before the House a copy of the case presented by them respectively to the Court of Session, if any such case was presented there, with a short summary of any additional reasons upon which he means to insist; and if there shall have been no case presented to the Court of Session, then each party shall set forth in his case the reasons upon which he founds his argument, as shortly and succinctly as possible.
  "3. Ordered, that all printed cases be signed by one or more counsel, who shall have attended as counsel in the court below, or shall purpose
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  attending as counsel at the hearing in this House.
  "Standing ORDER VI.
  Ordered, that all cross appeals be presented to the House within the period allowed by Standing Order No. V. for lodging cases in the original appeal.
  "Standing Order VII.
  "Ordered, with regard to appeals in which the periods severally dating from the presentation of the appeal under Standing Orders Nos. III., IV., V., and VI. expire during the recess of the House, that such periods be extended to the third sitting day of the next ensuing meeting of the House.
  "Standing Order VIII.
  "Ordered, that where any party or parties to an appeal shall die pending the same, subsequently to the printed cases having been lodged, and the appeal shall be revived against his or her representative or representatives as the person or persons standing in the place of the person or persons so dying as aforesaid, a supplemental case shall be lodged by the party or parties so reviving the same respectively, stating the Order or Orders respectively made by the House in such case.
  "The like rule shall be observed by the Appellant and Respondent respectively, where any person or persons, party or parties in the court below, have been omitted to be made a party or parties in the appeal before this House, and shall, by leave of the House, upon petition or otherwise, be added as a party or parties to the said Appeal after the printed cases in such appeal shall have been lodged.
  "Standing Order IX.
  "Ordered, that when any petition of appeal shall be presented to this House from any interlocutory judgment of either division of the Lords of Session in Scotland, the counsel who shall sign the said petition, or two of the counsel for the party or parties in the court below, shall sign a certificate or declaration, stating either that leave was given by that division of the Judges pronouncing such interlocutory judgment to the Appellant or Appellants to present such petition of appeal, or that there was a difference of opinion amongst the judges of the said division pronouncing such interlocutory judgment.
  "Standing Order X.
  "Ordered, that in all cases in which this House shall make any order for payment of costs by any party or parties in any cause without specifying the amount, the Clerk of the Parliaments or Clerk Assistant shall, upon the application of either party, appoint such person as he shall think fit to tax such costs, and the person so appointed may tax and ascertain the amount thereof, and shall report the same to the Clerk of the Parliaments or Clerk Assistant: And it is further Ordered, that the same fees shall be demanded from and paid by the party applying for such, taxation for and in respect thereof as are now or shall be fixed by any resolution of this House concerning such fees; and the said person so appointed to tax

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  such costs may, if he thinks fit, either add of deduct the whole or a part of such fees at the foot of his report: And the Clerk of the Parliaments or Clerk Assistant may give a certificate of such costs, expressing the amount so reported to him as aforesaid; and the amount in money certified by him in such certificate shall be the sum to be demanded and paid under or by virtue of such order as aforesaid for payment of costs."
  Motion agreed to.
  Ordered, That the said Standing Orders be entered on the Roll of Standing Orders of this House.
  Ordered, That the said Orders be printed and published, to the end all persons concerned may the better take notice of the same.
  House adjourned at Six o'clock, till To-morrow, Two o'clock.