THIRD READING. (Hansard, 3 August 1876)

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
said, it was, no doubt, unusual to oppose a Private Bill on the third reading; but he had opposed the Bill at a previous stage, and should have accepted that decision but for a complete change of circumstances. On the last occasion on which this subject was discussed the noble Marquess who had charge of the Bill contradicted him when he stated that it was promoted by the Board of Trade. He (the Earl of Camperdown) could not contradict the statement at the time; but on looking at the Bill subsequently, he found that Sir Charles 368 Adderley's name was at the back of it. Moreover, the Permanent Secretary of the Board of Trade was the first witness examined before the Committee. What the Board of Trade desired was that there should be an uniform supply of gas, the initial price being 3s. 9d., all over the metropolis. There were at that time two Bills before the House, and a third relating to the South of London was before the other House. But this latter Bill was objected to by the parishes of Camberwell and Lambeth on the ground that the Company had for years been supplying gas at 3s. 6d., and that if they were empowered to raise the price it would increase the income of the Company very greatly to the injury of the consumers, and the Bill fell through. Therefore, their Lord ships would have to consider next year what was the proper initial price for the south side of London. There were some doubts about the South Metropolitan Gas Bill; but it had now come on for the third reading, and the Company had thus, by their own motion, procured the passing of a measure which would limit the charge in their district to 3s. 6d. Bills on this subject were continually coming out and in like rabbits in a warren; and generally ended by disappearing, and it seemed to him it was highly desirable that when their Lord ships legislated on this subject they should consider it thoroughly and all at one time. They were now asked to pass the present Bill, which related only to the northern portion of London, and thereby to prejudge the question. If, however, they sanctioned the charge of 3s. 9d., they would not be doing what the Board of Trade originally proposed, because that Department wished to have an uniform charge of 3s. 9d. all over the metropolis. If their Lordships passed this Bill they could not retreat from the position they had taken up; and therefore he hoped they would not agree to the third reading.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBUBY,
said, the noble Earl (the Earl of Camperdown) had spoken of these Bills springing up like rabbits coming from their holes, but he did not know what 369 inference the noble Earl desired their Lordships to draw from this metaphor. As a matter of fact the present Bill had passed through all the ordinary stages and been subjected to all the precautions usually applied to measures of this kind. The Bill, moreover, had been approved by the Board of Trade, the Metropolitan Board of Works, and the Corporation of the City of London. It was introduced into the House of Commons, was examined by a Committee there, as it was subsequently by a Committee of their Lordships' House. It had been discussed on going into Committee of the Whole House and approved by their Lordships, and it certainly was a remarkable course to take to move the rejection on the third reading after all these siftings and discussions. There was one advantage, at all events, in the present proposal of the noble Earl, for there was no doubt now as to whether the effect of his action would be to destroy the Bill. The last time this matter was before the House there was considerable difference of opinion as to whether the result of the noble Earl, Motion would be the rejection of the measure, but there could be no doubt as to the object of the present Motion. The noble Earl said that if their Lordships sanctioned a charge of 3s. 9d. they would never be able to retreat from it. Well, if that were a danger we were exposed to it already, for Parliament had sanctioned a charge of 3s. 9d. in the case of these Companies. If this Bill did not pass they would continue to make that charge; and if the Bill did pass there were means provided in it for reducing the charge in proportion as the dividend of the Company increased. Indeed, in the opinion of competent persons it was likely that at an early period some reduction in the charge would be made—and it was probable that it would be a larger reduction than 3d., which was the object of the noble Earl's movement. If the dividend were raised even as much as 11 per cent the price would be reduced to 3s. 5d., and this would be a larger gain to the consumer than that which was contemplated by the noble Earl. The probability was that any hostile action would force the Companies to recede from a position in which great advantages were already guaranteed by Act of Parliament; and the real question at issue was whether the House 370 would prefer a bird in the hand to two in the bush, or, in other words, the almost certainty of having the price of gas reduced according to a sliding scale provided for in the Bill, or the putting the matter off for an indefinite period on the chance that the noble Earl by the unaided weight of his own eloquence might persuade the two Houses of Parliament to that which Parliament had never done before. There were reasons why the price of gas in the South of the metropolis should be somewhat higher than in the North, because the area being smaller the capital required was larger in proportion to the consumption than it would be in the North.

§ VISCOUNT CARDWELL
said, the observations of the noble Marquess would mislead the House as to the law in regard to at least some of the Companies. It was not correct to say that if this Bill were rejected the Companies would have the absolute power to charge 3s. 9d. in perpetuity, because the existing Acts provided the limit that the dividend was not to exceed 10 per cent; and there was also this further limit, that the Board of Trade could be applied to for an inquiry as to whether 3s. 9d. was or not a necessary amount, in order that the Company might be enabled to pay that dividend, with due care and management. As to the greater expenditure of capital in proportion to consumption of gas in the South of the Metropolis as compared with the North, it should be borne in mind that the consumption of gas increased very rapidly, and as population increased in the South so would the consumption of gas increase also. The consumer ought to have the benefit of this, but by this Bill they would be able to divide more by having the advantage of the cheaper production of gas. The time would also probably come when there would be some improvement in the institutions of the metropolis, and probably gas would be placed in the hands of some public body. Such a body would have to purchase up the great Gas Companies, and it would have to purchase also an additional property, which the Government by this Bill were seeking to make provision for.