Lords Sitting of 29 June 1875

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—National Debt (Sinking Fund) * (178).
Committee—Canada Copyright (157–179); Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (Abingdon, Barnsley, &c.) * (151); Local Government Board's Poor Law Provisional Orders Confirmation (Oxford, &c.)*(150).
Committee—Report—Public Records (Ireland) Act, 1867, Amendment (168); Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland) Provisional Order * (138); Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (London) (No. 2) * (141); Pier and Harbour Orders Confirmation (No. 2) * (55); Local Government Board (Ireland) Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 2) * (148).
Royal Assent—Falsification of Accounts [38 & 39 Vict. c. 24]; Public Stores [38 & 39 Vict. c. 25]; Bankruptcy (Scotland) Law Amendment [38 & 39 Vict. c. 26]; Intestates Widows and Children Act Extension [38 & 39 Vict. c. 27]; Glebe Loan (Ireland) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 30]; Railway Companies [38 & 39 Vict. c. 31]; Bishopric of Saint Albans [38 & 39 Vict. c. 34]; Turnpike Roads (South Wales) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 35]; Metropolitan Police (Surgeon, Clerk, &c. Superannuation) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 28]; Endowed Schools Act (1868) Continuance [38 & 39 Vict. c. 29]; Artizans Dwellings [38 & 39 Vict. c. 36]; Juries (Ireland) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 37]; Metropolis Management Acts Amendment [38 & 39 Vict. c. 33]; Survey (Great Britain) Acts Continuance [38 & 39 Vict. c. 32]; Saint Paul's Cathedral (Minor Canonries) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 74]; Public Health (Scotland) Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 3) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 73]; Local Government Board's Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 2) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 75]; Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (No. 3) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 76].

CANADA COPYRIGHT BILL—(No. 157.)
(The Earl of Carnarvon.)
CANADA COPYRIGHT BILL—(No. 157.)

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to Order.)
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, that as he had stated to their Lordships on the second reading, the Bill would prohibit the importation into this country of English copyright books reprinted

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  in Canada. He was now about to move Amendments, the objects of which were to allow the importation of such reprints into other Colonies, and also to allow their importation into the United Kingdom when they were imported by the owners in the United Kingdom of the copyrights, or by persons authorized by those owners. The main object of the Bill was to prevent the importation into Canada of pirated editions of English copyrights.
  Amendment made, in page 2, line 17, leave out from ("Bill") to the end of the clause, and insert—
  ("It shall be unlawful for any person, not being the owner, in the United Kingdom, of the copyright in such book, or some person authorised by him, to import into the United Kingdom any copies of such book reprinted or re-published in Canada; and for the purposes of such importation the seventeenth section of the said Act of the fifth and sixth years of the reign of Her Majesty, chapter forty-five, shall apply to all such books in the same manner as if they had been reprinted out of the British dominions.")
  Then it was moved to insert the following clause:—
  "The said Order in Council, dated the seventh day of July one thousand eight hundred and sixty-eight, shall continue in force so far as relates to books which are not entitled to copyright for the time being, in pursuance of the said reserved Bill."
  Clause agreed to.
  Further Amendments made: the Report thereof to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 179.)

PUBLIC RECORDS (IRELAND) ACT, 1867, AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 168.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
PUBLIC RECORDS (IRELAND) ACT, 1867, AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 168.)

  COMMITTEE.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put into a Committee on the said Bill, read.
  THE EARL OF BELMOREsaid, he wished to say a few words about the Bill before the House went into Committee. It dealt with a subject of considerable importance, and a Bill dealing with it had been twice before their Lordships before; the first time, two years ago, when his noble and learned Friend (Lord O'Hagan) brought in a Government measure to deal with it; and the second time last year, when he himself, at the instance of the General Synod of the Irish Church, had, as a private Member, brought in a
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  Bill. His own Bill last year provided that the originals of the registers of births, marriages, and deaths, should be taken to Dublin and placed in the custody of the Master of the Bolls, whilst certified copies should be made, and sent down to the parishes, where they would be accessible to persons in the localities. It also provided for the compensation of clergymen who would be deprived of fees by the removal of these records from their custody out of the funds of the late Established Church; and this he thought was the rock upon which the Bill had split, for it was owing to the objections of the Government to this part of the measure that it was not persevered with. The present Bill, on the other hand, whilst it provided, as he understood it, that the legal custody of all registers of births, marriages, deaths, and ordinations should be in the Master of the Bolls, left the actual custody of those belonging to parishes whose present incumbents had had charge of them before the passing of the Irish Church Act with those incumbents, until they either died or left the parishes they were in at the time that Act passed. After either of these two events should have happened they were to be sent to the Rolls Office in Dublin, and persons who wished to make searches would have either to go to Dublin, or to employ someone in Dublin to do so for them. He supposed the object of this was to avoid the necessity of compensating the clergymen; but it did not leave the books for the present any safer than they were before. The Bill further provided that where entries had been made in books since the Church Act passed, the Master of the Bolls might make an order for them to be left for an unspecified time—but he supposed until they were finished—with new incumbents, who were to be bound to take care of them. There did not appear, however, to be any method provided by the Bill for enforcing the obligation. He was much obliged to his noble and learned Friend for bringing in this measure; but he had thought it well, in the interests of the persons affected by it, to call attention to the different method, from that of last year, now proposed of dealing with these records, which had been hitherto very liable to be injured or destroyed. He did not mean to move any Amendments, as he had no doubt

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  that the matter had been carefully considered, and that there was some good reason for what was to be done.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that the matter had been found to be one of considerable difficulty, and the method proposed by this Bill differed from that proposed by one, if not by both, of the two former Bills. The Bill brought in by his noble Friend (the Earl of Belmore) last year provided that the original records should be taken up to Dublin, and kept there, and that copies should be made of them and sent down to the parishes. There were, however, several thousand volumes of these books; he could not at the moment say how many. To copy them all would take several years and involve great expense, and when done they would be sure to be full of inaccuracies, so much so that no one would be satisfied with them, but would in case of a search insist on consulting the original volumes. It was thought only fair that those incumbents who had charge of them up to 1870 should continue to do so, until they either died or left the incumbencies they then held. In the case of unfinished books the Master of the Rolls might make a special order to leave any of them with an incumbent appointed since that date, until the book was finished, security being taken he would take care of it; and it was thought to be not unreasonable to impose this duty upon him. He was glad to find that his noble Friend did not intend to propose any Amendments.
  House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half past Ten o'clock.