Lords Sitting of 2 August 1875

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Parliamentary Elections (Returning Officers)* (250); Government Officers (Security)* (251).
Second Reading—Militia Laws Consolidation and Amendment (243).
Committee—Report—Department of Science and Art* (221); Foreign Jurisdiction* (224).
Report—Conspiracy and Protection of Property (240–249); Employers and Workmen* (241).
Third Reading—Summary Prosecutions Appeals (Scotland)* (191); County Surveyors Superannuation (Ireland)* (219); Public Works Loans (Money)* (213), and passed.
Royal Assent—Bridges (Ireland) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 46]; National Debt (Sinking Fund) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 45]; Artizans Dwellings (Scotland) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 49]; Police Constables (Scotland) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 47]; Police (Expenses) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 48]; Canada Copyright [38 & 39 Vict. c. 53]; County Courts [38 & 39 Vict. c. 50]; Pacific Islanders Protection [38 & 39 Vict s. c. 51]; Washington Treaty (Claims Distribution) [38 & 39 Vict. c. 52]; Justices of the Peace Qualification [38 & 39 Viet, c. 54]; Tramways Orders Con-

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firmation [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxvii]; Ecclesiastical Commissioners (Fen Chapels) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxii]; Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (London) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxiii]; Elementary Education Provisional Order Confirmation (London) (No. 2) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxiv]; Local Government Board's Poor Law Provisional Orders Confirmation (Oxford, &c.) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxviii]; General Police and Improvement (Scotland) Provisional Order Confirmation [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxi]; Salmon Fishery Act Provisional Order (Taw and 'Porridge) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxx]; Gas and Water Orders Confirmation [38 & 39 Vict. o. clxix]; Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (Aberdare, &c.) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxv]; Local Government Board's Provisional Orders Confirmation (Abingdon, &c.) [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxvi]; Chelsea Bridge [38 & 39 Vict. c. clxxvii].

SUMMARY PROSECUTIONS (APPEALS) (SCOTLAND) BILL—(No. 191.)
(The Lord Steward.)
SUMMARY PROSECUTIONS (APPEALS) (SCOTLAND) BILL—(No. 191.)

  THIRD READING.
  Bill read 3a (according to Order).
  THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCHmoved an Amendment to the effect that the appeal should be limited to the cases in which it existed now—namely, where corruption or malice was alleged. He thought the measure was unnecessary in Scotland, where there were already special appeals by various Acts of Parliament.
  Amendment moved, line 21, after ("Judge,") insert (" and by law subject to review."—(The Duke of Buccleuch.)
  EARL BEAUCHAMPcould not accept the Amendment, and explained that it was only intended to give an appeal on points of law where a case was given by sheriff substitute or magistrates.
  THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCHsaid, that he should have moved the Amendment in Committee had he been present, but he would not now divide the House on it.
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that to pass the Amendment was to simply reduce the Bill to a nonentity.
  On Question? Resolved in the Negative: Amendments made; Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

CONSPIRACY, AND PROTECTION OF PROPERTY BILL—(Nos. 220–240.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
Amendments reported (according to Order).
THE EARL OF ROSEBERY THE EARL OF ROSEBERY moved, in Clauses 4 and 5, to leave out the words ('of service ") after the word ("contract "). The noble Earl said, his object was to bring all the clauses of the Bill in harmony with its principle. That principle was to put employers and employed on the same footing in respect of contracts. It was difficult to see what objection there could be to the Amendment, or why contracts of service should be treated differently from other contracts.
Amendment moved, in Clauses 4 and 5, page 2, lines 10 and 36, to leave out ("of service ").—(The Earl of Rosebery.)
THE LORD CHANCELLORopposed the Amendment, which, he observed, proceeded upon a misapprehension on the part of the noble Earl. The Bill was not framed, as the noble Earl appeared to suppose, on the principle of placing employers and workmen exactly in the same position as other persons, for it gave to workmen benefits which other persons did not possess. A contract of service was different from other contracts, because a man could carry on a large business only through trusted hands and the betrayal of the trust by the person employed might be attended with the most serious results to the employer. In other kinds of contract there was no position of trust. Again, in respect of those other kinds of trust the world was open to the contracting parties; while in the case of contracts of trust the employer must fix on some particular person and hand over to him the control or the partial control of his works.
On Question? Their Lordships divided:—Contents 17; Not-Contents 24: Majority 7.
Resolved in the Negative.
LORD PENZANCEsuggested the omission of the word (" maliciously ") in Clause 5, and other clauses providing against offences under the Act.
THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, that in the Malicious Injury to Property Act the word "maliciously" was used in analogous cases. In that Act, however, a clause was inserted which stated that the provisions of the statute were to apply, whether the injury had been inflicted out of malice against the owner

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of the property or otherwise. Before the third reading, he would consider whether some such declaratory clause might not be inserted in this Bill.
Further Amendments made; Bill to be read 3a on Thursday next; and to be printed, as amended. (No. 249.)

MILITIA LAWS CONSOLIDATION AND AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 243.)
(The Earl Cadogan.)
MILITIA LAWS CONSOLIDATION AND AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 243.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  EARL CADOGAN, in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, the Amendments it contained were not very serious, and he thought it would be more convenient to discuss them in Committee, should discussion be considered desirable.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a"—(The Earl Cadogan.)
  LORD WAVENEYsaid, he had no objection to the course proposed, if it were understood that it would be open to him on the Motion for going into Committee to discuss the principle of the measure.
  Motion agreed to:—Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

CATHEDRALS AND CHURCHES—RETURNS.—QUESTION.
LORD HAMPTONinquired when the Returns would be completed and presented of money expended upon the restoration of churches in the various dioceses of England Last Session he moved for these Returns, when he was told they were incomplete, and he preferred to wait until they were all received.
EARL BEAUCHAMPsaid, he could not answer the Question without Notice; but he could assure the noble Lord that every effort would be made during the Recess to get in all these Returns, which, he might add, were made gratuitously, and involved considerable labour and expense.
House adjourned at Six o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter before Five o'clock.