§ EARL RUSSELLrose to move an Address for Copies of any correspondence relating to the maintenance of the Peace of Europe with the Governments of the Emperor of Germany, the Emperor of Austria, the Emperor of Russia, and the French Republic, which can be communicated without injury to the public service. The noble Earl (who was very imperfectly heard), said, that, as he had not taken any part in the debate on the Address in reply to the Speech from the Throne on the opening of Parliament, he might, perhaps, be permitted to say 1565 a few words with reference to the late change of Ministry. Many years ago, when addressing those who were then his constituents in the City of London. he told them that when the people of England—who were the ultimate Court of Appeal—found that reforms were progressing too slowly, they always manifested a great disposition to place in power that party whose object was to reform and to preserve; but when, on the contrary, they thought matters were hurried on too quickly, they manifested an equal disposition to place in power those whose chief object was to preserve and to reform. For himself, he found no fault with that disposition. He thought the one party was required to be in power at one time, and the other at other times, and that was plainly the opinion of the country. Therefore the inquiry he was about to address to the noble Earl the Secretary of Foreign Affairs was not one conceived in a spirit of hostility to Her Majesty's Government. That inquiry had reference to the state of Europe, and to the intentions of the Government on certain eventualities. In the first place, he would remind their Lordships that the state of Europe five years ago was one of great apparent tranquillity, and there seemed, according to a statement of the then existing Government, to be no danger of a rupture of that peace; yet people who were well informed knew that at that very time there was a determination on the part of the people of Germany to have a unity of Germany, and, on the other hand, a determination on the part of the French to obtain the Left Bank of the Rhine. Their Lordships were aware of the events which had since occurred, and what he now wished to know was whether the symptoms of agitation and hostility which at present were to be perceived, were the subsiding waves of a past storm, or the omens of coming tempest. They had it from a great man, Field Marshal Moltke, in a statement made recently by him to the German Parliament, that what Germany had obtained in five months would require 50 years to consolidate. On the other side, he had been told by people well informed, that the whole of the French Army, from the highest marshal down to the lowest ensign, were determined to have their revenge for what they regarded as a spoliation of the territory of 1566 France and the rupture of her integrity by the annexation of Alsace and Lorraine. The question, then, was whether the symptoms now perceived were those of an approaching storm, or whether, notwithstanding those symptoms, we might remain for some years in peace and tranquillity. If they were the signs of storms, and if the peace of Europe was likely to be disturbed, it would be desirable to know whether Her Majesty's Government would in that case prepared to take measures to preserve the peace of Europe? For his own part, he was convinced that such was the vast influence of England in the councils of Europe, that it would be in her power to preserve the general peace. He did not think any Power would venture to disturb it if there was a strong alliance between England and the other Powers determined to preserve the peace of Europe. He imagined, in the first place, that they might rely on nor Majesty's Government adhering to all the engagements and all the Treaties by which the Crown of Great Britain was bound to her allies. On this point he hoped there would be no attempt to evade or shirk those positive engagements which the Crown of this country had entered into. He trusted, in the next place, that if there was any danger to the peace of Europe the whole influence of Great Britain would be exercised for the purpose of preserving that peace. There could be no disturbance of the peace of Europe, without the infliction of great evils on this country. It was not only that trade would suffer, but also the social happiness, the progress of liberty, and the advance of arts and civilization would be endangered. A great man, who had great influence—and ought to have great influence—in the councils of Germany, had declared that it was necessary for the Empire to have a standing army of 400,000. He did not require the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby) to give him any information which would be injurious to the public service, but he thought the subject was one of such interest to Parliament and the country, that any information the noble Earl could give, and which would enable the country to form an opinion, so as to prepare for coming events, would be very valuable at the present time. The noble Earl then moved for the Papers. 1567
Moved. That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for, Copies of any correspond-once relating to the maintenance of the Peace of Europe with the Governments of the Emperor of Germany, the Emperor of Austria, the Emperor of Russia, and the French Republic which can be communicated without injury to the public service.—(The Earl Russell.)
§ THE EARL OF DERBYMy Lords, the tone and language of the noble Karl who has moved for Papers are of themselves sufficient to convince the Government that he did not introduce the subject in any hostile spirit; and I am ready to admit that no subject could be more worthy the attention of your Lordships; and I know no Member of your Lordships' House who is more justly entitled to bring it under your Lordships' notice than the noble Earl. But, beyond that, I am sure your Lordships will feel that the inquiry which has been addressed to me is one which involves questions of the gravest and most momentous interest. It is an inquiry to which it is very difficult to reply in general terms, lest language might be used which might lead to misapprehensions outside your Lordships' House. Speaking—as I am bound to do here—under a sense of responsibility, and with the recollection that every word which I may titter will be repeated in other countries, I can reply to the noble Earl's Question only in the most general terms. The noble Earl asks me whether we are to regard the agitation which we now see in Europe as only a result of past wars—as only the swell left by storms that have passed; or whether we are to regard it as an indication of new storms that are about to break. My Lords, if I am to answer that question, however generally, I can only do so by distinguishing between the more immediate and the more remote future. If I look to more remote; events—and events pass quickly in these days—I do not think it would be fair, or that it would be right or honest, for me or any one in my position, to deny that in the present appearances there may be ground for apprehension and anxiety. I do not say that on any peculiar or official information: it is a conclusion founded on information common to the whole world. We must all bear in our recollections the events that happened four years ago. "We know the feelings they have left in the minds of two great populations, and which, as 1568 those populations are composed of human beings, it was impossible but they should have left. We know that among the population of France there is a very general and wide-spread desire to regain that territory which they lost by the fortune of war: and, on the other side, there is an equally strong determination to retain that which has been acquired. Now, that is a condition of things which is known to every one, and in referring to it I am merely reminding your Lordships of circumstances of which you are aware. It may be said that there is no use in trying to prevent what is inevitable, and that do what we may war will come sooner or later. I think it was Mr. Canning who, in reply to a person who made a similar remark to him, said—" Well, if it is to come sooner or later, I should prefer that it should be rather later than sooner." Obviously there is the possibility that with time feelings of agitation will subside in men's minds, and that, therefore, there is, as years go on, a greater chance of the preservation of peace. I think, however, your Lordships will be of opinion that I would be doing a very rash thing if I ventured to predict what may happen in some years to come. But with all that feeling of uncertainty I must say that if I may judge from all the information I receive—from the general tone and spirit of the communications which reach me from all parts of Europe—so far as immediate appearances go, there is no serious cause for apprehension of any present disturbance of the peace of Europe. I now come to the other Question which the noble Earl has addressed to me. The noble Earl asks, in the event of the dangers of war becoming more imminent, what should we do to preserve the peace? Now, my Lords, that is an inquiry which cannot be answered in any very definite terms; but I think there cannot be any doubt that without embroiling ourselves in a quarrel to which we were not a party, we should leave no reasonable endeavour untried to preserve peace. The noble Earl asks whether we shall adhere to our International Treaty engagements. I do not think there will be much doubt in the minds of your Lordships as to the answer which I shall feel it my duty to give to that Question. If for any reason an International Treaty or engagement becomes inapplicable to the circum 1569 stances of the time, it may be the duty of the Government concerned to state that to the other parties to the Treaty; but if you accept the obligations of a Treaty, and give the other parties interested reason to believe that you consider them binding, you are bound in honour and good faith to maintain them. It is well known that England has even of late years entered into Treaties imposing grave obligations; and I do not hesitate to say that we regard them as binding in honour and good faith. As regards the Papers for which the noble Earl has asked, I have looked through them, and I do not find in the Correspondence anything of such a character as would prevent them from being laid on the Table at the present time, so far as the Government of this country alone is concerned. We have no reason for withholding them; but there are the interests of other Governments to be regarded, and we are bound to respect the confidence which they repose in us. If there are any Papers of the nature referred to by the noble Earl which can be laid on the Table without inconvenience to the public service. I shall be happy to produce them.
§ Motion (by leave of the House) withdrawn.