HL Deb 12 June 1874 vol 219 cc1472-5
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

rose to ask how many cadets it is proposed to admit into Her Majesty's Navy at the next ensuing examination. The subject of the number of Officers in the Navy was a very important one. When the late Government succeeded to office they determined to take the question into their serious consideration, and during the first year of their term of office they drew up a scheme of Retirement which had already been attended with very satisfactory results. On 1st January, 1870, previous to the passing of that scheme, there were 95 flag officers in the Navy, of whom no fewer than 81 were on half-pay; there were 291 captains, of whom 202 were on half-pay; there were 401 commanders, of whom 240 were on half-pay; and 778 lieutenants, of whom 263 were on half-pay. Bad as that state of things was, matters were growing worse, and everybody agreed that something ought to be done; but, unfortunately, though everybody was of that opinion, when something was proposed, objections to that something were urged from all sides. He had stated what the proportion of officers on half-pay had been just before the new scheme was adopted. He would now state what it was in 1874. In January 1874, number of flag officers, 56—on half-pay, 41; captains, 179—on half-pay, 88; commanders, 212—on half-pay, 61; lieutenants, 663—on half-pay, 184. Those figures spoke for themselves; and whatever might be said with regard to the retirement scheme there could be no doubt that it had done much, and promised to do more, in reducing the Active List and bringing the number of officers into better proportion to the employment that could be offered to them than any other scheme that had been proposed by the Admiralty during the history of the Navy. He now came to the cadets. As from the nature of things promotion could not be rapid, it had been found necessary during the last few years to offer retirement to officers at almost any price in order to rid the Active List of officers for whom it was impossible to find employment. For 12 years prior to 1869 the average number of entries of cadets each year was 160, and it became necessary to offer to young sub-lieutenants and lieutenants, just coming to the time when they would be most useful, a bribe to quit the service. In 1869 the number of cadets who entered was 89; in 1870 it was 70; in 1871 it was 65; in 1872 it was 77; and in 1873 it was 40. There had been a tendency to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the requirements of the Navy in point of officers. This was the opinion of Sir John Hay, who, speaking on the 10th of June, 1873, said— You cannot hope to improve the list of officers if you swamp them by numbers. With 45 entries and by retirement from the lieutenants' list of 25 or 30 Lieutenants a year you would require no other retirement from the other lists of the Navy."—[3 Mansard, ccvi., 769.] What we had to guard against was too large, and not too small a number of entries. By way of objection to keeping down the entries, it was said that if we did not take care we might suddenly find ourselves short of officers. He would be the last person to advocate undue reduction, but he contended that it was impossible that we could keep in time of peace an establishment that would be sufficient for a period of war. The noble Earl concluded by asking his Question.

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY

said, he should not follow his noble Friend into a discussion of the retirement scheme adopted by the late Government; but he could assure his noble Friend that the Government did not propose to make any alteration in the regulations for retirements laid down by the late Board of Admiralty. What might occur in the future no man could tell, but the Admiralty had fixed on 35 as the number of cadets to be admitted this year—a number which was deemed sufficient to meet the requirements of the Service.

THE DUKE OF SOMERSET

said, that the efficiency of the Navy rested upon the young officers, and if the number of cadets were kept low it would be impossible to have a sufficient number of lieutenants—the Admiralty were able to complete an iron-clad in a very short time, but six years were required before a lieutenant would have attained the experience qualifying him for promotion. We might build ships with ease, but we could not create naval officers. The noble Earl (the Earl of Camperdown) might take credit for economy in cutting down the number of officers of the Navy. It was not difficult to do that; but then it might reduce the Navy to the condition in which it was at the time of the war with China, when we had not young lieutenants enough for the Service, and when we were almost obliged to call upon the mercantile marine for officers. He warned the Government that by keeping down the number of young officers they were doing immense mischief to the naval power of the country. He did not pretend to say what number should be admitted every year—that was a matter for careful calculation; but there should at least be on the list such a number of young officers as would enable us to be prepared in a time of war.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

said, he quite concurred with the noble Duke. If the country went to war to-morrow, we should either have to bring back the retired officers or take officers from the merchant service. No real saving could be effected by such reductions as had taken place in the Active List, because the country had not only to pay increased sums for retiring allowances, but had to pay for the increased number of officers required should a war break out.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

reminded the noble Duke and the noble Earl that he had made no reference whatever to the subject of economy. No doubt some saving of money would result from the scheme of retirement drawn up by the late Government, but it was not from the point of economy that he defended the scheme. In 1870 the employment for officers in the Navy was at a minimum and half-pay at a maximum, and it was due to the representations of the officers, who pointed out the hardship and almost professional ruin in which such a state of things involved them, that the scheme was introduced. The object of the scheme was to provide employment for officers, and the figures he had quoted showed that to a certain extent it had been successful; but, no doubt, up to this time no saving had accrued from its adoption.