COMMITTEE. (Hansard, 9 June 1874)

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, that as the subject he was about to bring before the House involved a somewhat important question of policy, and as it was inconvenient for him to make a statement on the subject at an earlier stage, he would venture now to detain their Lordships with a few observations. Many years ago the financial condition of India was very serious. Deficits multiplied every year—things grew worse and worse, and there seemed no hope of rescuing Indian finances from the persistent difficulties in which they had become involved. The plan was then adopted of appointing what might be called a special Cabinet Minister to look after the finances. Although no one could doubt that the Indian Civil Service 1260 furnished many able and most competent men, it was yet found desirable in times of some difficulty to introduce such new blood as the English Government might be able to command, and to be free from the restrictions formerly imposed. The financial achievements of Mr. Wilson, Mr. Laing, and Sir Charles Trevelyan, appointed under the altered rule, were familar to all who were acquainted with the recent history of India, and the result of the work that had been done was that the finances of that country were at present in a highly satisfactory condition. It was now proposed in the matter of Public Works to follow the precedent which had been set with regard to finances. Public works were a thing of comparatively recent development in India. Before the time of Lord Dalhousie there was no Department of Public Works at all. All such works were then done by the Military Department, and were in fact part of the military engineering. Since that time the Public Works Department had been created, and its duties had grown enormously. Twenty years ago there were only 21 miles of railway in India; now there were 6,000. Since the same time there had been spent on irrigation works between 8,000,000 and 9,000,000 of money—about £7,000,000 in Northern and £1,500,000 in Southern India. And the work which had to be performed by the Public Works Department was growing upon them day by day and increasing enormously in importance. Even before the recent famine there were irrigation works to the amount of 18,000,000 of money projected by the Government of India, and which the Public Works Department would have had to carry out: and now that the present calamity had taught them to look to irrigation to prevent that which might, otherwise, be a constant periodical charge upon the Indian revenue for the relief of famine, a number of other irrigation schemes had been prepared which would add largely to the work of the Department. An officer of whose ability it was impossible to speak too highly had submitted to the Viceroy a scheme which it was expected would have the effect in the future of averting-famines in the North of India. He calculated that the cost of carrying it out would be about £14,000,000—and it was obvious that even that large amount 1261 would be well spent if by that means they could avoid the present necessity of spending £6,000,000 or £8,000,000 every ten years. These were the prospects with respect to irrigation which the Public Works Department had before it. In connection with railways, also, the amount of work was very heavy. The 6,000 miles of railway constructed within the last 20 years had, no doubt, been made under the superintendence of the Government of India, but the actual work had been done by Companies, who had invested their money under the guarantee of the Government. That system was now at an end. It had been found to be financially a wasteful system, and in future all the railways would be made by the Government of India itself. Lord Mayo, who was competent to form a just judgment in the matter, calculated that, in addition to the 6,000 miles of railways already constructed, it was necessary to make 9,000 more, in order to furnish India fully with railways, and of those 9,000 only 3,000 had as yet been laid out. It was hoped that by the use of the narrow gauge the expenditure would be about £4,000 a mile, and if that anticipation—which was a very sanguine one—should prove correct, it was calculated that £16,000,000 out of a total proposed expenditure of £36,000,000 would be spent within the next four or five years. That was in itself a heavy financial undertaking, and the aid of the guaranteed Companies, which had in past times been exceedingly useful, had passed away for ever. The works had been ascertained to be remunerative, but not to the extent supposed. Some 10 years ago there was a happy superstition prevailing that one might make a railway or an irrigation work any where in India, and it was certain to be remunerative. That notion had been entirely dispelled by the stern logic of facts; the railways—even the best of them—barely paid the interest of the money expended on them; and in regard to those that were to be constructed in the future, they must look for remuneration to the increased commerce and revivified industry which they would cause. He doubted if in any one case—certainly if in many cases—they would repay the interest of the money which had to be raised in order to make them. It, therefore, became of extreme importance 1262 that the utmost skill and vigilance should be exercised in the construction of them, in order that the burden on the revenues of India might be made as light as possible. The irrigation works were much in the same condition. They had been misled by calculating that future works would make the same return as those already in work, forgetting that in respect of them they had merely taken over work that had been commenced by their Mahomedan predecessors. He might illustrate his argument by a reference to the Jumna Canal—an old Mahomedan work in the North-Western Provinces—and the Punjaub Eastern Jumna Canal, in which cases it would be found that the returns were more than the interest of the money which had been raised to construct the work; whereas other similar works in the same provinces constructed exclusively under the British rule, did not yield sufficient to pay the interest upon them. He mentioned these details in order to show that irrigation works in India, like the railways, were not the easy and certain matters they were some 10 years ago thought to be, and that it required the utmost vigilance and the most careful organization to secure that those works should not be a permanent burden on the already heavily-weighted revenues of India. It might be asked, whether it was that the Public Works Department had not done its business well? He was willing to admit that that Department had shown great energy and public spirit. Finance was, however, not its strong point. He had laid upon the Table of the House certain Returns showing the relations between the original estimates of the Department and the actual expenditure for the last three years, and it would be seen that there were no fewer than 300 cases in which the expenditure had very largely exceeded the estimate; the sum total of the whole matter being that, whereas the original estimate was £4,100,000, the actual expenditure was £6,700,000. In stating that fact, he was not seeking to throw blame on individuals—the weakness must rather be taken to lie in the system; and it was to remedy the state of things of which he spoke that he proposed to make an alteration in the constitution of the Council of the Governor General of India by appointing to it a Member of Council 1263 for Public Works, who would be appointed by the Crown. This Member of Council would give his especial attention to these matters, and having the complete superintendence and control, would feel that the making or marring of his reputation would depend upon the manner in which he discharged his duties. The Viceroy himself, he was bound to say, was very much adverse to having the number of his Council increased, and although he did not agree with him on the point, he thought it well that power should be given which would enable the number to be kept down to its present level. Of course, the exact mode in which the proposed alteration should be carried into effect could not be decided until after further consideration, and the Bill was therefore in a permissive form; but he was satisfied it would have the effect of promoting that efficiency in a great public department which here the stimulus of an active public opinion tended to produce.

LORD NAPIER AND ETTRICK
wished to know whether the noble Marquess had consulted with respect to the Bill the Council over which he himself presided?

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
said, he had had no formal consultation with the Members of his Council on the subject.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
asked whether the Viceroy had expressed an opinion adverse to the change?

§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY
was understood to say that he had not completed his communications with the noble Lord on the subject.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
said, it would have been a great recommendation of the measure, if the noble Marquess had been able to state that the Bill came before their Lordships with the approval of the Indian Government.

LORD NAPIER AND ETTRICK
desired to make a very few observations. He gave every credit to the noble Marquess for his great abilities and the assiduous attention with which he devoted them to the interests of India; but he certainly thought the present measure would have come before the House with a still higher recommendation than it did had his personal opinion been assisted by those associated with him in the government of India. He thought the measure one of very doubtful expediency. It contemplated the institution of two new functionaries in India; one was a special officer charged with the responsibility of Public Works in India, who, he thought, would have no special effect in diminishing expenditure or controlling the application of the revenues of India to public works. It was quite true that the expenditure on many of those works had exceeded the Estimates, but that was not unknown in this country in the case of public works; and taking the peculiar conditions under which such works had to be executed in India, and the difficulties which had to be encountered, he doubted whether, under the circumstances, the works could have been better or cheaper done. The other proposal was the transfer of a Member of the Council of the Governor General to one of the subordinate Provinces, who, he thought, would, as a sort of Inspector or spy on the proceedings of the subordinate authorities, inspire jealousy and prove absolutely pernicious. He submitted that the Bill ought for the present to be withdrawn.