Lords Sitting of 6 July 1874

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BLLLS—First Reading—Agricultural Tenants Improvements* (149).
Second Reading—Building Societies* (127).
Committee—Leases and Sales of Settled Estates* (93); Bills of Sale Amendment* (139–152): Elementary Education Provisional Orders Confirmation* (88–153).
Committee—Report—Apothecaries Act Amendment* (116).
Report—Conjugal Eights (Scotland) Act Amendment* (126).
Third Reading—Drainage and Improvement of Lands (Ireland) Provisional Order* (125), and passed.
Withdrawn—Glebe Lands Sale (136).

MALAY PENINSULA.

  QUESTION.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY, on rising to ask the Secretary for the Colonies, Whether he is instituting or about to institute an inquiry into the state of the Administration of the Straits Settlements previous to November, 1873, said, the object of the Motion he before made respecting the Malay Peninsula was to point out the risk of this country being insensibly led on to the conquest of that Peninsula, and to elicit from Her Majesty's Government a declaration in opposition to such a course. He failed entirely; and, in consequence of having made some accessory matters too prominent, only succeeded in eliciting contradictions from the two Secretaries of State, repeated on a subsequent occasion, and sufficient to have silenced him till next Session had he not been sure of the facts of which he had spoken. He had referred to the bad administration of the Straits Settlements incidentally only, and to support his main argument, and not

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  expecting that would be denied. He made a mistake in twitting the noble Earl (the Earl of Carnarvon) with the appointment of the late Governor, for it was unnecessary, as he mentioned at the same time to their Lordships that the noble Earl was not responsible for that Governor's acts, having quitted office shortly after his appointment. It was also unnecessary, since he was as well aware as the noble Earl (the Earl of Carnarvon) that no motives of private friendship or favouritism had anything to do with that appointment. The noble Earl would perhaps, however, admit—if not to their Lordships, at least within his own mind—that he had some provocation in consequence of his laudation of the affairs of the Straits when speaking of the Gold Coast; and subsequently the noble Earl told their Lordships he had never heard of any dissatisfaction with the Colonial Office in the Straits. He thought the noble Earl had shown by that statement that from the time he left the Colonial Office until he returned to it this year he had not read any of the Straits newspapers. He must protest against the doctrine held by his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley), that three years was too long ago to refer back; what political action or circumstances could he mention, the origin of which did not date from a longer period than three years? He must also protest against the doctrine that, if the conduct of a Colonial Governor was called in question, it was the duty of all the Ministers under whom he had served to defend him per fas et nefas, whether he was right or wrong. Such a doctrine would make public interests go to the wall, and a Governor who might have been reproved by the Minister in private would find himself upheld and approved by the Minister in public. If he was told that it was too late, only six months after an Administration had ceased, to call it in question, he urged that had he done so while the Governor was in office he should have been told he was weakening his hands. Though he was prepared for a sharp reply from his noble Friend opposite (the Earl of Carnarvon), since he had, perhaps, brought it on himself, he was not prepared for what fell from his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley), against whom he had said nothing, and from whose despatches in the Salangore Blue Book he had read passages in sup-
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  port of his views; and it was only after the discussion was over, he understood that his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) might have felt that he had been implying that he was in the case of "Judex damnatur cum nocens absolvitur." After what his noble Friend said, he felt bound to ask for an inquiry into the administration of the Straits up to November, 1873—and in justice to the new Governor, Sir Andrew Clarke, there should be an inquiry into the system, in order that he might start fair. But, perhaps, he was wrong in asking for an inquiry as to the whole of the matters that might be thought to be fit subjects for one, since the Colonial Office might have and probably had already inquired into many of these matters; but what was wanted was that the Colonial Office should publish its own judgment on these matters, either by laying the Correspondence before their Lordships or by ordering the Straits Government to publish them, that the colonial public might know that the Colonial Office had been watchful over its interests. With regard to the question of presents, he would only observe that the defence offered by the noble Earl (the Earl of Carnarvon) merely stated that which was stated in the letter to The Straits Times, which he himself had read to the House; and he did say that if the Government believed that letter to be a calumny they were bound to prosecute The Straits Times, and to clear the late Governor completely; in which case he (Lord Stanley of Alderley) should be anxious to express to him his regret at having brought that letter before their Lordships. He would go further, and say that if the late Governor would tell him in black and white that neither directly nor indirectly had he taken any other presents than these weapons referred to by the Secretary of State, he should be willing to express to Sir Harry Ord his regret for having given him a moment's pain. He could not help feeling that Sir Harry was indebted to him for having given him the opportunity of meeting a charge made in the Singapore papers months before he left the colony, and which it did not appear he had ever denied or noticed. He now came to another matter. In a letter signed "Economist," which appeared in The Straits Times in 1870, this statement was made—

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  " Was not the office of Assistant Colonial Secretary created by the recommendation of Sir Harry Ord? Did not Sir Harry Ord put into it his own private secretary, Mr. Plow, already the holder of two offices, to keep the place warm for the gentlemen appointed by the Secretary of State? Did he not authorize Mr. Plow to draw the full pay of the new office (£600 to £800 a-year, I believe) in addition to his own two full pays? Did he not even authorize him to receive it after Mr. Irving had been appointed to the office at home, and was entitled to half the salary? Lastly, was not the office a perfect sinecure all last year, and did not Mr. Plow resign it because the present Colonial Secretary, Captain Shaw, insisted on his doing some work, or, at least, attending for some time at the office? If these questions cannot be answered in the negative, one more has still to be asked. Is it to the 'Colonial system,' or to Lord Granville, or to Sir Harry Ord, that this happy disposal of the Colonial Funds is to be attributed?"
  The Colonial Office did take action in this matter by redressing this financial irregularity, and it might be fairly assumed that it blamed the Governor, and conveyed its approval to the Treasurer, who had been upright, and had upheld the rules and regulations of the service. He challenged the Colonial Office to produce this Correspondence, and he challenged his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) to ask for its production, that their Lordships might judge whether he was justified in stating that the Governor had always acted with perfect fidelity. He must remind their Lordships that the Straits Settlements under the India Office had been perfectly-peaceful, but that shortly after the transfer to the Colonial Office every portion of the community was in arms against the Governor; and the London merchants connected with the Straits were driven to found an association to oppose a course of what was described as reckless and selfish expenditure; for a colony that had a revenue of less than £300,000 saw in three years some £50,000 spent in building a palace for the Governor, and some £60,000 more for buying and keeping up steamers. The complaint also was generally made that these steamers were not used for public purposes, but that they served too much the purposes of pleasure yachts; and the item of "travelling expenses" in the Colonial Budget was one which required the attention of the Colonial Office. But it was not merely the large sums thus taken from the public purse for private purposes which attracted attention and ex-cited universal reprobation—there was
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  the manner in which it was done. The Legislative Council was first told that the amount for the Government House was not to exceed £22,000. This was soon exceeded by some £5,000 or £6,000. Then, a further sum of £9,000 was obtained on a misrepresentation of what was already voted. He believed that not only the colony, but the Colonial Office was misled on this point. Then the French system of virements invented by M. Janvier de la Motte was resorted to, so that money voted for a different purpose was applied to the Government House. So as regarded steamers—representing to the Legislative Council that the cost of a steamer and a steam launch would not exceed £16,000 or £17,000, Sir Harry Ord got a vote passed authorizing him to buy these vessels. The vote made no mention of the limit, a copy of it was sent home to the Colonial Office, and they ordered a vessel which was to cost £23,000 at home, and, perhaps, £2,000 more to send her to the colony. Fortunately, the Straits Association interfered, and the Colonial Office prevented the construction of the vessel, and sent out a cheaper one. But what was his noble Friend's (the Earl of Kimberley's) opinion of the pecuniary administration of this public servant, whom he proclaimed the other day as faithful? In a despatch of August 15, 1871, he said:—
  "The expenditure of the Colony does not appear to me so satisfactory. I have noticed in the two last quarterly returns, as well as in the details of the Supplementary Estimates of previous years, that the Estimates are not drawn with as much care as is desirable; and that, while in ordinary services, there has been a constant and considerable increase, no great work of public importance, with the exception of the Government House at Singapore, has been yet undertaken. It should be borne in mind by the officer of your Government that a prosperous revenue furnishes no reason for lax or injudicious expenditure, and that these Colonial Governments which have presumed on a temporary surplus have, in many cases, been severely inconvenienced when unexpected circumstances called for summary retrenchment. In such cases, the first to suffer and to complain have been the officers of the Civil Administration, through the laxity of which disorder has arisen."
  There was another matter which should become the subject of inquiry, and that was the opium-farming. The late Governor renewed the opium farm for three years, though the lease had not expired, instead of leaving this to be done by his successor. He desired also

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  to request the noble Earl the Secretary for the Colonies to turn his attention generally to the subject of opium-farming by the British Government, as opium in the Straits and in Hong Kong required restriction and regulation still more than liquor in England; and the conduct of the British Government in this respect had been very severely commented upon by French writers. Now, in all that he had said he had merely repeated what had been matter of public fame for a long time in the Colony, and among colonial men at home; and he trusted that he should not be met again by remonstrances against making charges and raking up old stories. In his opinion, these who would screen the late administration of the Straits from a thorough investigation, or who would refuse to produce the Correspondence and Papers which could throw light upon it, merely pleaded guilty for it. To say they would have no inquiry, meant that the late Straits Administration was unable to face one. To say, it was too late now, was to say, that after six months' retirement a Governor might plead the Statute of Limitations. If that was the answer he was to receive it would be a significant one, and he should be quite satisfied that the complaints as to the state of things which exasperated the Straits Settlements for the last six years were not imaginary, but only too well founded. He now came to a complaint which was one which specially required inquiry into, and the result of the inquiry should be laid before their Lordships. He referred to the flogging of Chinese rioters. This flogging was quite unnecessary; it was contrary to public policy to establish severer punishments for one class of Her Majesty's subjects than for another. While we objected to certain Chinese punishments as barbarous, we ought not to set such a bad example to the Chinese. If the Government set the example of flogging, it was no wonder that the planters should follow it, and that recently two planters had been sentenced to only three and four months' imprisonment for flogging two coolies to death. The Kong Sis, or Chinese guilds, were not, as was stated the other evening by the Secretary of State (the Earl of Carnarvon), secret societies; but no accusation of secresy ought to have weight against these Chinese guilds in this country, where so many Englishmen belonged to
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  a secret society—that of the Freemasons—without that fact being thought blame-able by these who belonged to that body. Colonel Cavanagh did him the honour to ask his opinion, many years ago, about these Kong Sis, or beneficent societies and trade unions, and he recommended him to give an official position to their head men and make them responsible for keeping the peace. He learnt later that this had long been the practice in the Philippine Islands and in Java, where it had met with complete success. The flogging in the Straits Settlements had consisted of legal and illegal flogging. A law was passed in the Straits to sanction flogging of Chinese rioters, and it was a pleasure to him to be able to state that his noble Friend (Earl Granville) refused his sanction to it. After that, flogging took place, he believed, illegally. Later, a law for flogging was again passed—and he did not know whether it received the sanction of his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) or not. If he did not sanction it, then all the flogging which undoubtedly occurred was illegal, and required inquiring into. If he did sanction it, it would be for him to explain the grounds on which he sanctioned it, after his predecessor had refused to do so:—and, it must be remembered, that no change had occurred in the circumstances of Singapore. Their Lordships would, probably, be inclined to prefer the course taken by the late Secretary for Foreign Affairs to that taken by the late Secretary for the Colonies. It would be necessary for the Colonial Office now to inquire into this matter, and consider whether it could continue to give its sanction to such a law, and could justify it. Another law, authorizing the summary expulsion of Chinese from the Straits, was also passed, and gave rise to much dissatisfaction at the time, and required inquiry in order that the Government might decide whether it should continue to sanction or should abrogate it. He would now conclude by asking his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether he was instituting, or was about to institute, an inquiry into the state of the administration of the Straits Settlements previous to November, 1873?
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid that as his noble Friend (Lord Stanley of Alderley) had referred to several matters

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  which occurred when he was at the Colonial Office, he thought it would be well if he made a few observations before his noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies rose to reply. His noble Friend who had just addressed the House somewhat misunderstood him the other evening, when he understood him to say that they could not go into the transactions to which his noble Friend had called attention because they occurred three years ago. What he said on the occasion was that the Correspondence relating to these transactions was presented three years ago, and that he thought, therefore, his noble Friend might have challenged the conduct of the Straits Government at an earlier period than the present. Again, his noble Friend seemed to have understood him as holding that Sir Harry Ord had never made any mistakes. He had not taken up any such position. He thought his noble Friend had attacked Sir Harry Ord rather unfairly, but so far from saying that he had made no mistakes, he said he had failed on some occasions, though, on the whole, he had done good service. It was of but of few Governors of Colonies it could be said they had made no mistakes. His noble Friend had referred to the case of the double appointment in which Mr. Plow was drawing the pay of Colonial Secretary when he ought not to have been doing so. When the matter came under his own notice as Secretary for the Colonies it at once appeared to him that there was not the least doubt about the matter; and believing that Mr. Plow was not entitled to draw that pay, he ordered an inquiry into the matter, and, as the result of that inquiry, he directed that the money so drawn should be refunded. Then, as regarded the finances, in a Despatch which he sent out to Singapore he called attention to the fact that the management of the finances was not satisfactory. The matter was considered and discussed at Singapore and in the Colonial Office, and in certain respects improvements were suggested. He was in hopes that the suggestions of Her Majesty's Government had been productive of good effect, and he could see no objection to the production of this or of any other Correspondence on this subject. Then came the question of flogging. In a Peace Preservation Act sent over here for approval it was proposed that the punishment of flogging might be inflicted for illegally
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  carrying arms. Lord Granville objected to that, but subsequently another code was prepared, and in it that punishment was proposed for certain offences. He was not enamoured of the punishment of flogging. He thought we should be very cautious in giving it our sanction, and that it should be inflicted only in cases of great brutality. It was inflicted only in such cases under the general code to which he had just alluded; but it was proposed that it should also be inflicted in the case of rioting, but only under peculiar circumstances. The Peace Preservation Act of the Settlement provided that in certain cases of rioting the magistrates might by proclamation acquire larger powers of dealing with the rioters. When at the Colonial Office he came to the conclusion that in these very serious cases, and after the place had been put under proclamation, flogging might be inflicted on the rioters. The noble Lord seemed to be of opinion that the Chinese Guilds in Singapore were harmless societies. That was not so, these guilds were a source of considerable embarrassment to the Government. It was true that their actions were not directed against the Government; but they quarrelled among themselves to such an extent, that the trade and peace of the place were seriously disturbed by their riots, and in these conflicts lives had sometimes been sacrificed. The Governor had informed him that in these serious cases flogging was approved by the whole of the European population, and he thought he had informed him that it was approved by the Chinese residents also. If his noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies saw no objection to producing the Correspondence referring to these several matters, he for his own part should be glad of its production; but if it were produced he should not think his noble Friend would be able to lay grounds for an inquiry, now that Sir Harry Ord no longer held office, and that the Governor was Sir Andrew Clarke, than whom there was no abler servant of the Crown.
  THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, he thought his noble Friend who had just addressed the House had disposed of nearly all the topics touched upon by the noble Lord (Lord Stanley of Alderley). For himself, he (the Earl of Carnarvon) must demur to the remarks made by the noble Lord at the outset of his speech as

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  to his not having made a sufficient study of the Colonial newspapers. Having regard to the number of our Colonies and the number of newspapers published in them, it would be impossible for anyone to find time to read them all. The noble Lord had spoken of the expenditure under Sir Harry Ord in reference to building the Government House, which he said was not of a character warranted by the revenue of the Colony. It was true that Sir Harry Ord did lay his plans for that house on a larger scale than the circumstances of the Colony warranted; but he was blamed for that by his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley), and also for allowing the building of that house to take precedence of the other works of the Colony. It must, however, be borne in mind that the expenditure for Government House was sanctioned by the unofficial Members of the Governor's Council, and it must also be remembered that he left the Colony, not only free from debt, but with a very considerable surplus. The case of the steamers was this:—When the Straits Settlements were handed over, the steamers previously in use were worn out. Sir Harry Ord, with the consent of his Council, made a requisition for a steamer to cost £10,000; but by additional fittings the price was brought up to £23,000. He was directed to strike that sum out of the Estimates, and a steamer which costless than £16,000 was sent out. The noble Lord spoke of the transfer of unexpended balances from one head of expenditure to another. It was true that the practice was not restricted as much as it ought to have been at Singapore. He did not like the system, but it was not peculiar to the Straits Settlements. It prevailed in this country till within a few years ago, and, subject to a Minute in Council, it still existed in Australia. As to the case of Mr. Plow, had Sir Harry Ord attended to the Colonial Rules he would have known that such appointments, if not actually prohibited, were discountenanced by these Bales; but as his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) had explained, the disapprobation of the Colonial Office had been expressed in that case. With respect to flogging, the noble Lord asked whether Her Majesty's Government would continue to give their sanction to the flogging ordinance which had been passed
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  some five or six years ago. There were two Colonial Acts which contained provisions respecting flogging—the Peace Preservation Act, and the Penal Code. The offences for which the Penal Code of the Straits Settlements provided flogging, were these which were of a brutal nature and were analogous in their character to these for which flogging was inflicted in this country. The question of that penalty in these cases had been very fully considered in the Colony, and certainly he was not prepared to advise any alteration in the law. The Peace Preservation Act provided flogging for rioting with deadly weapons. The conditions under which the punishment could be inflicted were strictly defined, the district must be proclaimed before the Act could be applied, and the number of lashes was specified. Although flogging might be repugnant to our modern notion, it might be said to be almost indigenous in the East, and considering the circumstances he had stated, he saw no reason for recommending its abolition, in these rioting cases. There had been no Petition or remonstrance on the subject, and he had not heard any abuse alleged until the noble Lord stated that two coolies had been flogged to death and that the person who inflicted the flogging had received only four months' imprisonment. He should like to have further particulars, if the noble Lord could furnish them, for there was no account of the case at the Colonial Office. The inquiry which the noble Lord now asked for would be almost without precedent. It could be justified only by a conviction on the part of the Colonial Secretary that serious abuses had occurred. He did not think such abuses had occurred, and, therefore, he could not hold out to the noble Lord the slightest expectation that an inquiry would be instituted. The case was one of a Crown Colony. There had been mistakes; his noble Friend the late Secretary for the Colonies had expressed his opinion on these mistakes, and that in a very unsparing manner; but it would be very unjust to Sir Harry Ord if the Government gave any grounds for the belief that they thought an inquiry into his conduct was necessary. No Petition or Memorial asking for such an inquiry had been addressed to the Crown, and in his opinion not the slightest case had been made out for it. During Sir

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  Harry Ord's Governorship the expenditure of the Colony never reached its income; no new tax was imposed; the value of land increased largely; the trade of the settlement increased 27 per cent; the increase of shipping entered was to the extent of 40 per cent. and that of shipping cleared to the extent of 45; and when revenue and expenditure were taken—though it was difficult to make an exact comparison in consequence of the transfer of various items—the result was that a Colony which commenced its career without a balance had a credit at the commencement of the present year of nearly $700,000 Before producing the Despatches referred to by his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley) it would be necessary to look through them; but as far as the Colonial Office was concerned there was no objection to their production.

NAVAL CADETS—OBSERVATIONS.

  RESOLUTION.
  LORD CHELMSFORDrose to call attention to the Returns which had been laid upon the Table of
  "the regulations in force on board Her Majesty's ship Britannia in respect to the summer and winter routine and the course of study prescribed for naval cadets;" also of "the examination papers issued for the examination of candidates for naval cadetships, and of naval cadets at the end of their first, second, third, and last term for the year 1873,"
  and to move a Resolution thereon. The noble and learned Lord said, he thought he should be able to show their Lordships that the subject to which he wished to direct their Lordships' attention was one of great, and he might add, of national interest—for such the training of officers in our Naval Service must unquestionably be considered. Should their Lordships agree to the Motion for the production of the Returns, he thought he should be able to show that upon their due consideration, an inquiry ought to be instituted as to the course of study prescribed for Naval Cadets, and as to the character of the post-terminal examinations, with the view of ascertaining whether the system had been found by experience to work satisfactorily in training up young officers to fit them in every respect for our Naval Service. He believed that if an inquiry were instituted, it would be found that the severity of the studies enforced
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  at the training schools overtaxed the mental powers of the cadets, and consequently was injurious to their health. The candidates for cadetships had to present themselves at from 12 to 13 years of age. The examination for admission—which took place half yearly—was a competitive one, and as the candidates were usually about double the number of the vacancies, a great many boys were disappointed. It was not with this entrance examination he had to deal. The system of competitive examination for all services was now believed to be established; but it had been so indiscriminately applied, and it had been pushed to such an absurd and such a ridiculous length, that eventually it must provoke a re-action. As, however, the object of this entrance examination for cadets was to get the best boys, perhaps it was right that it should be somewhat beyond the powers of average youths. What he wanted to particularly bring under the notice of their Lordships was the course of the successful candidates, in order that their Lordships might ascertain the ordeal through which these boys had to go, and the number of barriers through which they must make their way before they were admitted to active service. The training was conducted on board the Britannia at Dartmouth, and took two years. Each of these years was divided into two terms. At the end of each term there was an examination—so that there were four examinations to be gone through in the course of the training, and failure in any one of these would be defeat to the boy's attempt to enter the naval profession. He had moved for a Return of the examinations during the four terms which preceded the end of the year 1873. He would call their Lordships' attention to a few questions put to the cadets at each term examination. At the first term the cadets were to be of an age not under 12½ years, and not over 14, and the subjects of examination were arithmetic, algebra, Euclid, plane trigonometry, geography, history, grammar, and literature, religious knowledge, and French. With respect to algebra, he might mention that a person fully competent to judge of the fact had stated that the questions were far beyond the calibre of boys of that early age. Ten questions were put in arithmetic, which they had two hours

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  and a half to answer; and here was one of them:—
  "The value of the paper required for papering a room, supposing it ¾-yard wide, and worth 4½d. a yard, is £2 3s. 1½d.; what would he the cost if were 2ft. wide, and worth 4d. a yard?"
  He thought he might venture to say that there were some Members of their Lordships' House who would find themselves very severely taxed to answer that question in three hours, even if it stood alone. For the questions in geography they were allowed three hours, and in that time the boy was required to—
  "draw a map of the Spanish, peninsula, showing the provinces, chief towns, and mountain chains," and to "describe the position of the following places, and state for what any of them are remarkable:—Bilston, Wigan, Witney, Galashiels, Carron, Newry, Breslau, Astracan, Magdeburg, Rotterdam, Liege, and Bordeaux."
  The boy was also required to—
  "show, by means of a diagram, the moan elevation of the Continents. Write a descriptive account of the principal lowland plains of the Old World."
  The time allowed for history was one hour and a half, and in that very limited time the boys were to state as follows:—
  "1. What nations have successively gained a footing in this country? State how long the rule of each continued. 2. Explain fully the relations in which Edmund Ironside and Canute stood to each other and to the country. 3. What claim had Edward the Confessor to the throne? Describe his character and the principal events of his reign. 4. Show by a description of events which occurred during the reign of William I. that the English people did not receive him submissively. 5. What were the leading features in the characters of Harold, William I., William II., Henry I., and Stephen? Substantiate what you say by examples. 6. Describe—(a) trial by ordeal, (b) Danegeld, (c) curfew bell, (b) tournaments."
  Could their Lordships imagine the state of mind a poor boy of such tender years would be in, who had to prepare for such an ordeal? But on the second term's examination the subjects were of progressive difficulty, and spherical trigonometry and navigation were added to the subjects. In arithmetic there were again ten questions, of which he would take two as specimens:—
  "If 12 oxen and 35 sheep eat 12 tons 12 cwt. of hay in eight days, how much will it cost per month of 28 days to feed nine oxen and 72 sheep, the price of hay being £4 4s. a ton, and three oxen being supposed to oat as much as seven sheep."
  The next was—
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  "£1 English being 25·4 francs, 3·75 francs being equal to 105 kreutzers, 60 kreutzers being equal to one florin, find in English money the value of 1,143 florins."
  Then, in geography, they were required to—
  "draw a map of Persia, showing its divisions and chief towns. Describe its boundaries and government. Enumerate the States of India, starting from the mouths of the Hooghly and proceeding round by the south to the north, and then down the centre. Give as full an account as you can of the distribution of minerals over the earth. Write a full account of coral formations."
  For answering the following six questions in history they were allowed an hour and a half:—
  "1. Name the Kings from Henry II. to Richard IL, and give the time that each reigned, with chief events of his reign. 2. Who were the Plantagenets? What events led to the accession of the first of the line? 3. Explain the causes of Wat Tyler's rebellion. How were the demands of the rebels met? 4. Describe, as fully as you can, the relations of England with Prance in the reign of Henry V. 5. Write what you know of the history of Margaret of Anjou. 6. Describe the condition of Franco in the reign of Henry VI.; give an account of the Maid of Orleans."
  Then, in grammar and literature, besides analyzing sentences and paraphrasing fourteen lines of poetry, "turning it into simple prose," they were to give a short account of the war and events celebrated in the ballad of "Horatius." For the third term, the examination was more difficult still. One of ten questions in arithmetic was:—
  "Of a certain dynasty 1–3rd of the kings are of the same name, ¼ of another, ⅛ of a third, and 1–12th of a fourth, and there are five besides, how many are there of each name?"
  Two hours was the time allowed for history, the examination paper being as follows.—
  "1. Describe the relations which existed between England and Scotland during the reigns of the first three Tudor Sovereigns. 2. Write a history of Mary Queen of Scots. 3. Show, by a genealogical table, the claim of James I. to the Throne of England. 4. Explain the following, and where possible give dates:—(a) The Statute of Six Articles; (b) Babington's Conspiracy; (c) The Spanish Match; (d) The Self-denying Ordinance; (e) The Exclusion Bill. 5. Give an account of the principal events of the reign of Charles IL, and state for what that reign was particularly noted. 6. Describe the events which immediately led to the Great Revolution."
  He now came to the final examination, at the time of which the boys were not to be younger than 14 or older than 15½ years. Nobody could doubt that this

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  last examination ought to be of an essentially practical character, and so directed that the boys might become proficient in these particular subjects which they could bring into active use in the service of the Navy. Some very perplexing questions in physics were put, in addition to some very useless questions in geology, of which the following was a sample:—
  "Describe fully the different igneous and aqueous rocks and give a section of the earth's crust, with proper explanations."
  Again, under the head of history were the following questions:—
  "1. Give the dates of the following events, and mention the reign in which each happened. Bombardment of Algiers, Battle of Trafalgar, Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle, death of Sir E. Peel, the Battle of Sheriffmuir, and the opening of the first railway. 2. Give the principal events in the history of our Indian Empire with which the names of Warren Hastings, Lord Cornwallis, and Lord Gough are connected; state fully what you know of the following—the Septennial Act, the Corn Laws, and the Reform Bill; write an account of the Battle of Aboukir, with a short history of the reign of William IV.; and write a short account of the American War of Independence."
  And all this was to be done in the space of two hours. Let their Lordships fancy the feelings of a young cadet qualified in every other respect for the naval service, vigorous in mind and in body, ardently longing to enter the profession, who, after long study, found his hopes blighted and the future of his life overclouded because he could not give a satisfactory account of the Septennial Act, the Corn Laws, and the Reform Bill. What possible use was such knowledge to a naval cadet, and how much of the time which he ought to devote to thoroughly learning his profession was wasted in acquiring it. Probably their Lordships would be of opinion that under the present system the mental and physical powers of these young boys were being too highly taxed. Their Lordships would not be surprised at hearing that there was a general complaint among the cadets that the hours of study were too long and the hours of relaxation too few, and that there was too great a strain on their physical and mental powers, that their brains were worried and their nerves shattered. He had called their Lordships' attention to this subject in the hope that they might agree to the Resolution which he had given Notice to move.
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  Moved to resolve, That upon the consideration of the Returns which have been laid upon the Table of this House of "the regulations in force on board Her Majesty's ship Britannia in respect to the summer and winter routine and the course of study prescribed for naval cadets," also of "the examination papers issued for the examination of candidates for naval cadetships, and of naval cadets at the end of their first, second, third, and last term for the year 1873," it is the opinion of the House that an inquiry ought to be instituted as to the course of study prescribed for naval cadets, and as to the character of the post-terminal examinations, with the view of ascertaining whether the system has been found by experience to work satisfactorily in training up young officers to fit them in every respect for our naval service.—(The Lord Chelmsford.)
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, he was not at all surprised that the noble and learned Lord should have taken up this subject, considering that he had commenced his distinguished career in the naval service, of which, had he continued in it, he would doubtless have reached the top and attained the same eminence he had done in the profession which he subsequently adopted. He could not but agree in the opinion that the noble and learned Lord had expressed, that the training of cadets for the Navy was at present very much overdone, and that it was in itself injudicious. Their Lordships, however, must recollect that the whole country had been for some time so determined on having a high standard of education, and to push it to the utmost, that some allowance must be made for want of reflection and mistakes in details. Their Lordships were aware that a boy entering the naval profession should possess high courage, a healthy constitution, and good temper; and it was impossible that he should possess these necessary requisites if his health were undermined and his physical and mental powers injured by over-study. That however must follow if these young lads were overtasked in training. It was the task of the Government to see that the training of these cadets was conducted with discretion and judgment. So much was this the feeling of Her Majesty's Government that his right hon. Friend at the head of the Admiralty, being to a certain degree of opinion, from facts which had come to his knowledge, that the education of these cadets was being very much overstrained, and that their health was deteriorating in consequence of their being over-worked, had ap-

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  pointed a Committee consisting of two gentlemen versed in University education, two naval officers of distinction, and two medical men, who were to judge of the effects of the mental strain under the system pursued on the health of the boys and to report accordingly. That Committee was now sitting, and therefore it would be improper for him to say more on the subject at present; but he might add that the Government were obliged to the noble and learned Lord for having brought the subject under their Lordships' notice.
  THE DUKE OF SOMERSETalso thanked the noble and learned Lord for bringing the subject before the House. He had for a long time considered that these examinations were becoming more and more a system of "cramming" and failed in securing the main object—that was, giving these boys a good, sound, and practical education. It should be remembered that after they left the Britannia the boys had to be examined for the sea service and in gunnery, and consequently they had to go through other severe courses of study. He would repeat that it was very important that these boys should receive a good, sound education.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNsaid, that as regarded the first entry of cadets into the Navy, the inference might be drawn from the statement of the noble and learned Lord that the admission was by open competition, but the system was really one of limited, not of open competition—twice as many boys were nominated as there were vacancies—and although he would admit that the examination was rather severe, yet it was found that no very large percentage failed owing to the severity of the examination. He should state that the training school of the naval cadets on board the Britannia was quite distinct from the Naval College. At one time there had been a difficulty about the examination of naval officers; but under the system now in force, the office of Director General of Naval Education had been abolished, and the officers connected with the Naval College had charge of the examination; so that the whole of the officers' education was conducted on a system which had not hitherto prevailed, and the question of what the subjects for examination should be might therefore well be considered. He certainly did not object
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  to the appointment of a Committee. There were several questions which would arise—as, whether Dartmouth, a place on the South Coast, and with a relaxing air was the best place in point of health; next, was it desirable that the education of cadets should be conducted on board ship and not in a college on shore? Different opinions were entertained by many officers whose opinions were entitled to consideration on this point; but, although the desirability of making a change in this respect had been fully established, the chief difficulty heretofore had been in finding a place suitable for the purpose. He would therefore express the hope that the Committee, while considering the general question, would also direct their attention to this point.
  LORD HAMPTONsaid, no doubt their Lordships would feel that the reply of the noble Lord on the part of the Government to his noble and learned Friend (Lord Chelmsford) was most satisfactory; but there was one point of the greatest importance which had been presented by the noble Earl (The Earl of Camperdown) in a new aspect—it was one of the greatest interest if they wished to bring up these boys in full mental and physical vigour. If these young men were to be brought up in a training ship it was most essential to decide where that training ship ought to be. Now, he would not hesitate to say that of all the places to be found along our coasts the very worst situation for a training ship was the port of Dartmouth, for, although it was one of the most beautiful as regarded its scenery, it was, at the same time, one of the most relaxing as regarded climate. In saying these few words he entirely concurred in what had fallen from the noble Earl opposite, and would express the hope that the Committee which had been so properly appointed by the Admiralty would consider not only the subject of the instruction of naval cadets, but the locality in which it was to be conducted.
  EARL FORTESCUEsaid, he was of opinion that Dartmouth was not so relaxing as had been described, for there was a perpetual current up and down the harbour, and the facilities for boating there were also very great. How-over, he perhaps had a county prejudice on the subject. He fully admitted the disadvantageous results from overtaxing

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  the brain at an early age. Masters of schools deprecated their pupils entering for valuable scholarships at a period of life when their mental powers would be deteriorated by over-study; and in the case of the Navy nothing could be more undesirable than that there should be what the noble and learned Lord (Lord Chelmsford) had well described as a shattering of the nerves of the cadets arising from exertions pursued under the very strongest and most laudable motives. He congratulated their Lordships and the country on the wise and judicious course which had been adopted by Her Majesty's Government on this subject.
  Motion agreed to.

GLEBE LANDS SALE BILL—(No. 136.)
(The Lord Bishop of Carlisle.)
GLEBE LANDS SALE BILL—(No. 136.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Lay for the Second Reading, read.
  THE BISHOP OF CARLISLE, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, explained that he had introduced it on behalf of the Governors of the Queen Anne's Bounty Board. It might be thought, from the title of the Bill, that it was a measure to authorize the sale of glebe lands, and that no such power at present existed. The power, however, did exist, and was already so wide that it required to be modified rather than extended. The present was, in fact, a restrictive Bill, and, if it became law, the effect would be, not that a greater number of globes would be sold, but that the money would be applied in a manner more conducive to the good of the Church than could be done under the existing Acts. A beneficial change had come over Queen Anne's Bounty Board in the mode of dealing with applications to sell glebe land acquired through the Board, as would be shown by a comparison of two quinquennial periods. During the period from 1864 to 1869, 159 applications for leave to sell were made to the Board, of which 150 were approved, 8 were postponed, and only I was refused. On the other hand during the years from 1869 to 1874, 239 applications for sales were received, of which only 97 were approved, 105 being refused and 37 postponed. These figures proved that at present the views of the Board were of
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  a Conservative character—and of these views he highly approved, for he thought that only under exceptional circumstances ought land to be parted with. No endowment was more certain to keep up its value than land, which was likely to go up while the purchasing power of gold went down. In fact, the present condition of things was this—a constant conflict was going on between incumbents who wished to sell their glebes and the Governors of Queen Anne's Bounty, who wished them to be retained; and, consequently, the Board never sanctioned the sale of glebe land unless a very high price was offered. Forty years' purchase was generally obtained, and, in his own diocese, even as much as 65 years' purchase had been obtained. Under these circumstances, it was thought an arrangement might be come to, by which, to a certain extent, the claim of the incumbent to sell, and the claim of the Board to preserve the glebe land, might be met; and he had accordingly introduced this Bill under the sanction of the Board. The principle of the Bill was contained in the 10th and 11th clauses. By the 10th clause it was competent for the Governors, by arrangement between them and the incumbent, to retain a portion of the annual income to be derived from the investment of the purchase money. This portion so retained would accumulate as an addition to the capital for the permanent increment of the living, and the residue would be paid to the incumbent. He had been instructed by the Committee of the Board to ask the highest authority, whether there was anything objectionable in principle in such a proposal. The Lord Chancellor was good enough to say that he saw nothing objectionable in the principle itself; but that he reserved his opinion as to the clauses and the working of the Bill until it was laid upon their Lordships' Table. What, then, would be the working of the measure? He would suppose the case of an incumbent having glebe land which brought him in £80 per annum, and which was sold at 40 years' purchase. The purchase money having been invested in the Funds at 93, brought in £100 per annum. He would now explain how it was proposed to deal with the extra £20. Ten pounds would go to the incumbent as the increased value of the living, and he would accordingly receive £90, instead of £80; and the

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  remaining £10 would be invested at compound interest. The 11th clause provided that every 10 years the incumbent might apply to the Bishop to recommend the Governors to pay to him (the incumbent) the whole or any increased proportion of the annual income of the original fund and of the accumulations. At the end of every 10 years, therefore, the incumbent would have a rise of income. The result would be that, at the end of 40 years, the possessor of the living would have exactly the sum he would have had if the whole of the profit had, in the first instance, been given to the incumbent. Carrying the calculation out to the end of 100 years—which, though a long time in the life of a man, was not a long time in the life of a living—the result would be that the income, instead of £80 a-year, would be no less than £130, minus only 10 s. If that principle commended itself to their Lordships' minds, they would have no difficulty in giving this Bill a second reading. The Bill contained a clause specially guarding against any interference with the powers of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; nor did it make it obligatory on the incumbent to sell—it simply enabled the Board to carry out any voluntary arrangement he might enter into with it. It might be said that, at this period of the Session, a Bill of this kind could not pass through that and the other House of Parliament. Now, he was by no means desirous of having hasty legislation on the subject; he only asked their Lordships to give the Bill fair consideration on its merits. The question of what should be clone with it afterwards would depend on other considerations.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a"—(The Lord Bishop of Carlisle.)
  THE LORD CHANCELLORsaid, he had been asked his opinion before the introduction of the Bill as to the accumulation of the proceeds of sales of glebe lands, and he stated that it was always open to Parliament, if there was any sufficient object, to depart from the strict rule and permit accumulation; but he certainly did not express any opinion in favour of the arrangements of this Bill. He thought nothing could be more injurious to the interests of the Church than the severing of the connection between the Church and the land
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  to any great extent. Now, he doubted very much whether the existing powers for authorizing the sale of certain parts of glebe lands were not already too ample. There was a great tendency on the part of clergymen to seek for powers to sell portions of the glebe lands for the purpose of augmenting their income. The tendency was not, perhaps, unnatural, but it required to be watched and guarded—certainly it ought not to be encouraged. This Bill was, however, calculated to promote that tendency by inviting incumbents to bargain with the Board in relation to the sale of their glebes; and, so far as it tended to enlarge the existing powers, he should be sorry to give his assent to it. The right rev. Prelate said that the pith and marrow of the Bill lay in the 10th and 11th sections, but these contemplated an operation that required the aid of an actuary to explain what its effects would be. He doubted whether it would be a desirable thing to invite sales under these particular clauses. One effect would be that a Bishop's time would be very much occupied with numbers of applications—which might be made every 10 years—for augmentation of the benefice; and there was also an appeal if he refused to sanction the increase. He could not understand on what principle a bargain should be made with an incumbent for the sale of any portion of his glebe lands not for the purpose of increasing the living of the existing incumbent, but of making up a surplus for his successor. The consequence would be that the chance of obtaining an additional £10 a-year would operate as an inducement to an incumbent to turn the glebe land into money. The less bargaining there was of this kind the better. It was better it should go forth at once that Parliament was not going to encourage clergymen in any wholesale conversion of their land into money. He did not mean to say there might not be exceptional cases in which it might not be done; but the less clergymen turned their minds to the question of selling glebe lands, the better would it be for the interest of the Church.
  VISCOUNT PORTMANsaid, he was prepared to move that the Bill be read a second time that day three months, because he thought it better that the issue should be raised at once. The

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  Bill would stimulate the clergy to do that which he believed it would be a bad thing to do—namely, to sell the glebe lands of the country; and in his judgment no proceeding could be worse. He should be more pleased to support a Bill repealing the existing powers of sale than to support one to enlarge them and encourage sales. Mr. Pitt—by whose maxims they had lately been told they were to be governed—objected to the sale of glebe land, because he held that we ought on no account to separate the clergy from the land. If the right rev. Prelate were prepared to carry out his opinions to the fullest extent, he supposed they would carry him as far as the sale of the land of the Bishops; and, indeed, the principle would apply to their Lordships' lands as much as to these of the clergy. Under the present law the proceeds of a sale went to improve the income of the incumbent, but the right rev. Prelate proposed to "keep back" part of the price, the property of the minister, in order to benefit his successor. Such a scheme to come from a Bishop he had never expected. The Bill would take away part of the property of the present incumbent, of the succeeding incumbent, and of the owner of the advowson, to be managed by the Bishop of the diocese. It would be a retrogressive step, which he believed would be most objectionable. He had acquiesced silently in the proposal to trust the discretion of the Bishops in another measure of a different character; but he could not admit of their discretion in meddling with the temporalities of the clergy.
  An Amendment moved to leave out (" now ") and add at the end of the Motion ("this day throe months.")—(Viscount Portman).
  THE BISHOP OF WINCHESTERsaid, that if the Bill would encourage the sale of glebe land he would oppose it; but he believed it would have a deterring influence, because it would not give the present incumbent the immediate benefit of the prospective increase in the value of the land, but would rightly reserve a portion of that growing value so as to prevent the deterioration of the living. If a living of £100 would be worth £130 in 100 years, it would be unfair to discount the future increased value for the
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  present incumbent, and leave the living worth only £100 a hundred years hence. The present incumbent would get more than he could get now, but he should not be allowed to make matters worse for his successors. Therefore, no undue encouragement was given to sales of glebe, and there was no keeping back part of the price in the sense implied by the noble Earl.
  LORD SELBORNEshould regret if a division were taken upon the Bill, because it was evident that the majority of their Lordships would prefer that the matter should be further considered. The Bill must have the effect of, in some way, increasing the powers of the Queen Anne's Bounty Board, because it provided that all the powers they now possessed should remain in full force. It would be observed, also, that the provisions of the Bill were not to come into operation except where the Governors of Queen Anne's Bounty and the incumbent consented; so that in practice the Board would have the fullest discretion in applying the Act. If the powers of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners and of the Bounty Board, in the cases to which this Bill would apply, were at present concurrent, he did not see why it should be proposed to give a new power to exact special terms to the Bounty Board only, and not also to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners; especially if, as he understood the proposal, such power would be applicable to all benefices, whether aided by Queen Anne's Bounty or not. He doubted very much whether it would be well to hold out any inducement to sell for special terms in cases not otherwise desirable, and the whole question of entrusting powers of this kind to two co-ordinate and independent public Boards, instead of one only, seemed to require consideration.
  THE EARL OF HARROWBYsupported the Bill, and contended that it involved neither danger to the Church nor injustice to the incumbents.
  LORD EGERTON OF TATTONalso approved of the principle of the Bill, but recommended its withdrawal for the present.
  THE BISHOP OF CARLISLEsaid, that after what had passed he should not press the Motion for the second reading, and would withdraw the Bill.
  Amendment, and original Motion and Bill (by leave of the House), withdrawn.

BUILDING SOCIETIES BILL—(No. 127.)
(The Earl of Harrowby.)
BUILDING SOCIETIES BILL—(No. 127.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  THE EARL OF HARROWBY, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that it was a measure for the purpose of carrying out the recommendations of a Royal Commission. The result of the inquiries of that Commission was to recommend certain improvements in the present state of the law, more especially with a view to protect the poorer classes, whose credulity was often abused by the manner in which the powers of these societies were exercised. The Bill consolidated all the Acts relating to the subject.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

  AGRICULTURAL TENANTS IMPROVEMENTS BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill for providing for Agricultural Tenants in Great Britain compensation for improvements made by them on their holdings in certain cases—Was presented by The Lord MELDRUM; read 1a. (No. 149.)
  House adjourned at Eight o'clock, 'till To-morrow Eleven o'clock.