HL Deb 19 March 1872 vol 210 cc230-2

(The Lord Archbishop of Canterbury.)

(NO. 48.) SECOND READING.

Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.

THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY,

in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that the Bill, which had come up from the Commons, might, perhaps, occasion some surprise; but he hoped the time had passed when the offices of Dean and Canon could be regarded as sinecures of the Church. He believed they were offices to which grave responsibility attached, and which were of very considerable importance to the Church of England. He did not think the Bill went to the whole root of the matter. Earnest as was the desire on the part of the members of the various bodies to perform their functions in the Church, they continually found themselves thwarted by the existence of old statutes and old regulations which it would be very desirable that their Lordships should take into consideration; but that would be a matter for future deliberation. Within the last two or three weeks more than one meeting of the Cathedral Chapters had been held at Lambeth, and but one spirit had animated all those who were present at those meetings as to the necessity of making our cathedrals more general and useful to the whole community than they had been during the age which had just passed. The anxious desire of all persons connected with cathedrals was to make them thoroughly useful as integral and important parts of the Church of England system. The wish now was to make our cathedrals not only the homes of learned men, and temples in which large congregations gathered together to hear the Word of God, but to make them the centres, in all senses, of the dioceses. At the last meeting, though there was a great difference of opinion as to whether it would be desirable to make any appeal to Parliament for an alteration in the statutes, there was only one opinion as to the Cathedral Bodies having a great duty to perform. Such being the case, the offices of Canons and Deans could not be regarded as sinecures, and it was desirable that they should have the power of resigning in the same manner as the Bishops had by the Act, a Bill for the continuance of which their Lordships had just read a second time.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a "—(The Lord Archbishop of Canterbury.)

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

hoped that the anticipations of the most rev. Primate with regard to the cathedrals and the Cathedral Bodies would be realized. He rose to express his gratitude to the most rev. Primate for the several Bills of which he had moved the second reading that evening, which had been introduced not only, he thought, with the best intention, but with wise judgment. He desired, however, to offer a few criticisms. The 6th and 7th clauses of this Bill would affect certain members of the Universities who, in addition to other offices, held that of Canon. He thought there were two Heads of Colleges at Oxford and one at Cambridge in that position, and those Colleges viewed with apprehension the power which the Bill would give the Bishops to deprive them of their Heads—that was to say, to declare them lunatics, and remove them out of the way.

THE BISHOP OF OXFORD

thought that the fears which the noble Marquess had expressed on behalf of the Heads of certain Colleges at Oxford and Cambridge were altogether groundless. It would not be in his power under this Bill, or in that of his right rev. Brother (the Bishop of Ely), to declare those eminent persons lunatics in the off-hand way the noble Marquess seemed to suppose. This point affected himself more nearly than any other of his reverend Brethren. By the 8th clause, both the collegiate churches in the diocese of Oxford were taken out of his jurisdiction. The case of the Chapel of St. George, Windsor, was intelligible enough; but he was at a loss to imagine why Christ's Church should be withdrawn. If both the Queen's Chapel of St. George at Windsor and Christ Church were to be taken out of the diocese of Oxford, it might be said that that diocese was without a cathedral, and the further question might then arise in some minds whether any other diocese would not do as well without a cathedral.

THE DUKE OF MARLBOROUGH

regarded this Bill as the commencement of a series of measures of importance and usefulness to the Church to be introduced into the House; but, at the same time, thought that it would require amendment on one or two points.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY

pointed out that the Dean of Christ Church stood in so peculiar a position, from the fact of his being the Head of a College, that the jurisdiction over him ought to be, not in the Bishop of Oxford, but in the Archbishop.

After a few observations from Lord LYTTELTON,

Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.