§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY, who had given Notice to call attention to the proposed application of the system of responsible government in the colony of the Cape of Good Hope; and to ask the Secretary for the Colonies whether he intends to press the adoption of that proposal without giving to the people of the colony an opportunity of expressing their opinions upon it, said: My Lords, the Question I am going to ask of the noble Earl opposite, the Secretary of State for the Colonies, re- 1622 quires a few words of explanation on my part. I should have been able to present the Question in better form if I had had an opportunity of giving more attention than I have given to those Papers having reference to the Cape of Good Hope, which, very fortunately, at my request, the noble Earl laid on the Table at the close of last Session. I am very much obliged to him; but my gratitude is greatly diminished by the fact that I only got them last night. The noble Earl says that that is not his fault; but I believe those Papers have been before the House of Commons for some time. Such an occurrence is not unusual, and perhaps after this the noble Earl may give what will prove a useful hint on the subject. My Lords, the Cape Colony is a Colony which for a considerable time has been in financial trouble, and the consequence of a continuous series of deficiencies has been that serious differences have arisen between the Executive Government and the Chambers which are the Legislature of the Cape. To remedy this, the Secretary of State pressed on the Colony that it should adopt the form of government known as "responsible government," and which it has not at present. It has Chambers; but the Ministers are chosen by the Governor, and cannot be displaced by the Chamber. The Colony did not take the proposal so kindly as Her Majesty's Government could have wished; and that is easily explained, I think. Responsible government would be a good thing for persons anxious to obtain places under the Government, because it would open such places to all; but it is not viewed in the same light by those who, not wanting places, only wish for a good and attentive administration of affairs. In this country we believe that a responsible government answers very well; but we know that in several countries on the Continent its success has not perhaps been so decided, and its success may be spoken of in very qualified terms when we come to look at its action in the great Australian Colonies. Be that, however, as it may, I believe that, up to this time, the English Government have never proposed to apply it to a country in which the people were not tolerably homogeneous; but still more, they have never attempted to apply it to a country which was divided by distinctions of race and by hostile tra- 1623 ditions into two opposing camps of partizans. That is the state of the Cape. It is entirely surrounded by a native population, and the native population exists to a preponderating extent within the Colony itself. I believe that out of every three men in the Cape Colony two are men of colour. The franchise is very low—practically, it is a household franchise, extending without any condition over the Colony. The result is that if the native population chose to exercise their rights and put themselves on the registries, the government of the country, under a system of responsible government, would be absolutely in their hands—they would have the power of entirely governing the Executive, for that is what "responsible government" means. The surrender of all the power, both legislative and administrative, of the Colony into the hands of a majority elected by a coloured race, is an experiment that has never been tried yet, and the White people in the Colony may be excused if they look upon it with some degree of distrust. But that is not all. The White population itself, though merely one in three to the coloured, is again divided into two races hostile to each other. There is a population of English and a population of Dutch. The Dutch are in the majority, and, I believe, regard themselves—and not unnaturally, in consequence of their past history—as the legitimate possessors of the Colony, and look upon the English as intruders. There are large districts of the country, and large masses of the population, which do not even understand English, and have no sympathy with English institutions. Therefore, my Lords, supposing that the coloured people attended to the registries, the result, under a system of responsible government, would be to place all the power in the hands of the Blacks; but if they did not, and matters in that way continued as they are now, the result would be to place the whole power in the hands of the Dutch. I am not astonished, therefore, that the English who reside in that part of the Colony known as the Eastern Province should not like a change which they think would remove them from the protection of the English Crown, and place them under the government of the majority of Dutch electors. There are other arguments not less cogent than these. One of them 1624 is this. For a responsible government you want a population of considerable intelligence; you want a public opinion to act upon public men; and you want independent men who will undertake the duties of governing, so that you may keep the country from the plague of professional politicians. Now, you have not that in the Cape Colony. The culture of the Colony is so low that out of every seven men there, six cannot read and write. They are for the most part people entirely engaged in providing the means of their own support; and that is a difficulty when you want to procure the attendance necessary for legislative work, and to set up the machinery by which a Parliamentary Government is to act. Therefore, to introduce responsible government would be to do that which is at least premature in the present state of the Colony. My Lords, all this accounts for the obstacles Her Majesty's Government have met with in their endeavours to introduce responsible government. Attention has been drawn to the extreme narrowness of the division by which the Motion for this new form of government was thrown out, and to the fact that the population of the Colony is averse to this proposal. And, my Lords, there are suspicions which it is not very easy to put into plain language, but which the noble Earl will perfectly understand, as to the likelihood that the Government would exercise more than legitimate influence to turn the minds of those who are not willing to adopt the proposed system. At the instance of the noble Earl opposite, a Bill for the establishment of the system was introduced in the Legislature of the Colony: it was laid before the Executive Council; they unanimously disapproved it, and memorialized on the subject, condemning the measure in the strongest terms. Nevertheless, the Governor laid the Bill before the Assembly of the Lower House, which passed it by a majority of 1; and several—5, I think—of those who had been returned to vote against it voted for it. Then it went up to the Legislative Council, a body elected by the Provinces, and it was thrown out by a majority of 3. In the Eastern Province, when the election came on, a candidate who supported the proposal was defeated by 2 to 1 by a candidate who undertook to vote against it. I must repeat that this is regarded as a question of race 1625 domination. But for this reason it might seem extraordinary, and even unintelligible, that a proposition for responsible government should be rejected. The fact is, the English colonists of the Eastern Province believe that if this Bill pass, the Dutch will be in the ascendant, and that the English will be bound hand-and-foot to be governed by them. Now, my Lords, I do not wish to be understood as saying that the Dutch colonists would make any bad use of the power which might come into their hands; but I can easily understand that the English colonists look with jealousy on a preponderance of Dutch power; and that therefore the Eastern Province should have voted, and should continue to vote, against this proposal. They are, I believe, willing to accept it on one condition—that the federal principle should be introduced; and that, except so far as a federal union, the Eastern and Western Provinces should be separated. On this the Government have made a somewhat Irish proposal—namely, that if they will first pass this system of government—that is to say, will surrender themselves to the power of the Dutch—they may get themselves from under the hands of the Dutch as soon as they can by means of a federal arrangement. But if they surrender their power in that way, it is not very likely they will get it back. I am anxious to avoid conveying to the House the idea that I suppose this feeling of hostility of race—which, no doubt, at one time, was very bitter—is becoming deeper or more permanent. On the contrary, I believe it is growing milder, and that it will continue to do so; and that, ultimately, this feeling of jealousy and distrust will entirely disappear. And, again, I say that I do not think that practically any bad use would be made by the Dutch colonists of their predominant power if they acquired it. I confess my own fear to be that the power which is at present theoretical might become practical, and that the government of the Colony might get into the hands of an uncivilized coloured population, who have not intelligent men to lead them, and whose loyalty to England cannot be trusted. At the same time, I must admit that the hostility of the colonists to the measure proposed by the Government is not based on that ground. I believe it arises from the jealousy between the two White 1626 races, and that responsible government cannot be successfully established till that decreases very considerably. But what I am anxious to impress on Her Majesty's Government is that, whatever they do in the matter, they must not act behind the backs of the people of the Colony. They must give the colonists a full and fair opportunity to express their opinion on the scheme before so great a constitutional change is carried into effect. There are many influences which the Government may bring to bear. It is possible they may be able to overrule the majority which now resists this project, and introduce it despite the wishes of the colonists; but if they do so they will lay the foundation of many future bitter quarrels. Let them remember those which arose in Ireland after the Union, and the result of the policy pursued at that time. These changes, however salutary they may be in themselves, must be adopted in the full light of day, and with the full consent of the people, without suspicion of any concealed or any illegitimate proceedings. They must commend themselves thoroughly to the sympathies of those by whom the machinery of government will, in future, be worked. I am, therefore, anxious to press upon the noble Earl that, whatever he does in this matter, he should first send this Bill to the poll, in order that the constituencies of the Colony may pronounce upon it. If they support his opinion the thing must be done, and we can only hope the experiment will be successful. But, at least, he will then have the satisfaction of thinking that he has attained his object by fair means, and that the responsibility of any disaster which may arise will be shared by those who had the first right to be consulted, and who had the fullest knowledge of the circumstances. It is with this view I ask the noble Earl the Secretary for the Colonies, Whether he intends to press the adoption of the proposal without giving to the people of the Colony an opportunity of expressing their opinions upon it?
THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYMy Lords, I must first apologize to the noble Marquess for his not having received the Papers earlier. I take upon myself the responsibility of those Papers not having been issued till the evening after the close of the last Session. For reasons connected with the public ser- 1627 vice—not those referred to by the noble Marquess—I thought that they ought not to be distributed during that Session, but it certainly was my wish that they should be in the hands of your Lordships early this Session, and having seen my own copy, I fell into the mistake of supposing that all your Lordships had received them. As regards the subject itself which the noble Marquess has brought forward, I am far from complaining of the course taken by the noble Marquess. I think he has done me a service, and done the House a service, in giving us an opportunity of discussing it. At the outset, I may express my opinion that the matter is one of great difficulty. The establishment of a satisfactory government for the Cape of Good Hope is, perhaps, one of the most difficult problems that now present themselves to one who fills the office which I have the honour to hold. The noble Marquess, I think, insisted rather too much on the Government at home having started this proposal without any reason. Now, my Lords, if the existing constitution in the Cape of Good Hope had worked well, or even tolerably, I doubt if anyone would have proposed to change it. But on this point I may refer to the opinion of my relative, Sir Philip Wodehouse, the late Governor, who, although uniformly opposed to the policy of establishing responsible government in the Cape Colony, and who is therefore an impartial witness, speaks thus, in page 4 of the Papers, respecting the existing system. He says—
Nothing can be weaker or more objectionable than the position of the Executive Government under the present form of constitution, and I do not see how any Governor appointed by the Crown can attempt to regulate the affairs of the Colony.Seeing the impossibility of working that system, Sir Philip Wodehouse took upon himself to propose to the Legislature of the Colony a Bill in an opposite direction—one by which greater powers would have been given to the Crown, and one of the Legislative Assemblies would have been abolished, a single Assembly being substituted. That scheme—which was probably the only alternative that could have been proposed—was rejected by the Parliament of the Colony. But the noble Marquess seems to think that the electors have not had an opportunity of considering and expressing an opinion 1628 upon the system now proposed by the Government. That is not so. The present Cape Assembly was elected in 1869; and it was elected on this particular question, of the form of constitution which should be established for the Colony. By reference to page 15 of the Papers, it will be seen that Sir Philip Wodehouse, writing to my noble Friend the former Secretary for the Colonies, in explanation of how it was he had come to submit to the Legislature the Bill to which I have alluded, uses these words—When your despatch was written you were not aware that I had already published before the late elections the draught of a Bill to substitute one for the two existing Houses of Parliament, and that consequently the issue of responsible government or a change in the opposite direction had been prominently before all the constituencies.Now, the noble Marquess opposite seems to think that the Bill for responsible government was introduced at the bidding of Her Majesty's Government; but that is going rather beyond the facts of the case. What we said—what my noble Friend who filled the office before me (Earl Granville) said—in effect was—"You must adopt one system or the other. You must go backwards or forwards. If you are disposed to give the Crown more power and return more to the position of a Crown colony, modify the present institutions in that direction, and we shall be perfectly willing to undertake the government; but, if you are not so disposed, we see nothing for it but responsible government." It is quite true that, writing after my noble Friend, I expressed myself in favour of responsible government; but the Legislature had already rejected the other alternative. I especially said, at the same time, that this matter must be decided by the Colony itself. All I proposed was that we should get out of a dead-lock, and have some Government at work. The present system of government at the Cape is in a transitional state. On the one hand, the present system is not one by which the Executive Government can have the necessary power through nominees; on the other, it is not one which gives to the Legislature the power to appoint a responsible government. The Executive authority has to get from Parliament the money necessary to carry on the government of the Colony, and very great difficulty has 1629 been felt in the management of affairs. The noble Marquess has alluded to the opposition of the Executive Council of the Colony. It is perfectly true that the Executive Council expressed opinions which are to be found in the Blue Book, and which are against the introduction of responsible government; but I put it to your Lordships whether any set of gentlemen, however honourable, would like to commit suicide—because that is what the Executive Council would be doing in agreeing to the Bill. I fully believe that those gentlemen are honest and upright in their opinion; but, as the Council would be abolished by the passing of the Bill, their opinions are not likely to run in that groove. I say again that I admit the case is one of great difficulty. It is so for the reason stated by the noble Marquess—that there is so large a coloured population, the colonists being only one in three of the entire number of inhabitants. I do not think I need go into the question whether the English or the Dutch would have the preponderating power under a responsible system, because I believe that both the English and the Dutch are well affected towards the British Crown. I quite admit that the fact of two-thirds, of the population being coloured people is an argument for those who oppose the scheme; but I think the Cape Colony has come to a point which makes the adoption of a responsible government the wiser course. The present position is peculiarly favourable to some change. The diamond fields have brought out a great number of emigrants, and the whole Colony is in a state of movement and progress, which renders a change in the Constitution particularly opportune at the present moment. The noble Marquess has spoken of the opposition of races between the East and West Provinces. No doubt there is always a feeling that if the capital is at one end of a colony, the Legislature will give less of its attention to that part which is more distant from the seat of Government, and accordingly there has been a movement in the Cape Colony to bring about the transfer of the seat of Government from Cape Town to Graham's Town. In order to escape that difficulty, the system of federation was suggested—that the Colony should be divided into two Provinces and united under the system which as- 1630 sociates our North American Colonies in the Dominion of Canada. My Lords, I do not wish to express any decided opinion on that subject, because, before doing so, I should desire to know the feeling of the people of the Colony with reference to such a federation. A Commission has been appointed which will go into the matter, and we shall be able to learn what that feeling is. At the same time, I may say that if it be the wish of the Cape population that there should be such a federation, Her Majesty's Government will have no objection to carry it out. I think that probably it will be found the best solution of the difficulty. Instead of our wishing to put it that the colonists might have a federation if they adopted the system of responsible government, it has appeared to us that the question of a responsible government rather turned on that of federation. What Her Majesty's Government said was not—"Have a responsible government first, and you may have a federation afterwards." We thought that the two systems might be applied at the same time. I must, however, express my opinion that the future arrangement of the South African Colonies will be a question requiring considerable attention; because I have a strong conviction that the time is not far distant when all the White communities of South Africa, now separated into various States, will form one body. There are two Republics there—the Orange River State and the Trans Vaal Republic—and I shall not be astonished if those two communities should find it more to their advantage to unite with those which are already under the British Crown. These Republics suffer much inconvenience from being cut off from the coast, and I believe it would be an advantage to the country if such an union took place. That, however, is not a measure which Her Majesty's Government in any way propose. I only mention it as not impossible that some such change may be brought about, and if it does come, there can be no doubt that a system of responsible government will come with it—because there is not the least possibility of the other portions of South Africa forming a colony which was to be governed on any other system. Again, as I have mentioned, there are now a large number of European diggers in the Colony. 1631 They will require free institutions like those to which they have been accustomed, and that alone will render a responsible government necessary. I am not aware that I can add anything to what I have said. I have already pointed out to the noble Marquess that the present Assembly was elected at a time when the question was specially before them. [The Marquess of SALISBURY intimated dissent.] The noble Marquess will find that stated in the quotation I have already made from Sir Philip Wodehouse; but if the Governor of the Colony should think that a dissolution is necessary, in order to give the colonists an opportunity of expressing their opinion, Her Majesty's Government can have no objection. I am not quite sure, however, that a dissolution would not afford an opportunity for the exercise by the Government of those influences of which the noble Marquess seems so afraid. At the last election the electors had not so fully before them all the arguments for a responsible government, and it is quite possible that, having heard all those arguments, the colonists may be more favourably disposed towards it now. I think, however, that the question whether there ought to be a general election had best be left to the Governor. I only wish to assure the noble Marquess that, whatever may be our difficulties, it is not our intention to press this or any other system on the people of the Cape against their will. I entirely concur in the wish of the noble Marquess that if the system we propose is to be introduced the colonists should share with her Majesty's Government the responsibility of its adoption. All we want is the establishment of such a form of government as may be best suited to the requirements and the progress of the Colony itself, instead of one under which neither the Executive Council nor the Legislature have power to carry out effectively the government of the Colony.
EARL GREYMy Lords, I greatly regret to learn some of the facts contained in these Papers, because I think very serious consequences may result from what has been done by Her Majesty's Government. I cannot think my noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies has assigned any sufficient reason for pressing on the inhabitants of the Cape of Good Hope the system 1632 of party government, miscalled responsible government. My noble Friend has told your Lordships the present system is working so badly that a change of system is necessary; but after reading all the Papers, I do not think the Government, which has for some years existed at the Cape, has worked so badly as to render it necessary that some change should be made in it. I do not think my noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies has succeeded in proving that things might not have been allowed to go on as they were. I would remind your Lordships that the system of government now existing in the Cape of Good Hope is that which up to five-and-twenty or thirty years ago existed in all our colonies that possessed representative Legislatures. Before that time no such thing was dreamt of as the establishment of what is called responsible government. The system in operation was that under which this country was governed previously to the great Revolution of 1688. The Executive Government was entirely in the hands of officers of the Crown; the power of legislation was divided between the Crown and the Legislature; and it does not appear to me that, under that system, the Cape of Good Hope has gone on so badly. The Government have complete power in all executive and administrative affairs; and though it may be said with truth that legislation in the Colony has not been exactly what it ought to have been, and that the arrangements as to finance have not always been satisfactory, still, substantially, the wants of the Provinces have been provided for, and the Colony has continued to advance. I think it might be an advantage to the Colony to increase further the power of the Crown. This seems to me very probable, looking to the great improvement which has taken place in the government of Jamaica since greater power has been given to the Crown. But, at all events, it would be very dangerous to make a change in the opposite direction, and establish this system of responsible government in a Colony where a coloured population form a majority of the population. I would ask your Lordships to call to mind what has been the effect of responsible government in the only Colony at all similar in the character of its population to the Cape of Good Hope in which the 1633 experiment of this system of government has been tried. I allude to New Zealand, where it was established in 1853 or 1854. At that time New Zealand had surmounted its early difficulties and was rapidly advancing in wealth and prosperity. The war between the settlers and the natives had been successfully finished, and for seven or eight years complete peace and security had been maintained. The Maori race were making rapid advances in civilization, and already a larger proportion of them were able to read and write than of our own fellow-countrymen. Everything promised that in a few years the races would be amalgamated, and that the Colony would be peopled by a united and prosperous community. But when party government was introduced power fell into the hands of those who were elected by the White population. The Maories had no influence. The natural consequence was that the candidates for seats in the Legislature endeavoured by their language and conduct to make themselves popular with the class to which political power was confined, and those who obtained the management of affairs looked mainly or exclusively to the interest, and sometimes unfortunately to the prejudices, of the White population. The Maories, after a short time, found that their position was entirely altered. The great consideration for their welfare which had characterized the Government under the former system existed no longer. Their friends were removed from the public service, and those who had in the newspapers recommended measures unfair to the Maories were placed in authority and obtained employment under the Government. The natural consequence was that discontent spread rapidly among them. The Maories remained as loyal as ever to the Queen and to the Governor, but looked with jealousy and dislike upon Ministers dependent for their authority on Assemblies by whom their interests were set aside and disregarded. Nor was it only in the administration of the Executive Government that the interests of the Maories were neglected; they were neglected in legislation also. They had especially to complain of that which we have some experience of at home. Precious time was wasted in party squabbles, while useful legislation stood in abeyance. Year after year they asked 1634 that their wants might be attended to, while the time of the Assembly was lost in changing Ministers, or in carrying measures which were repealed in a few months after. Naturally there was great discontent in the minds of the Maories, and questions arose about their rights to land of which they had always been extremely jealous, which led to those quarrels which subsequently proved so fatal. I must express my conviction that for those quarrels the chief blame rests with the Whites. But, be this as it may, when the war commenced the Maories, as might have been expected from half-reclaimed barbarians, relapsed into the habits of former times. They carried on the war according to the customs of their fathers, and were guilty of great cruelties, which were repaid with not less savage retaliation. That war lasted for nine years, and has resulted in almost destroying the whole race of the Maories, which will soon become extinct, to the great regret, as I should think, of every man of humanity. In addition there was a great loss of British soldiers and sailors; many of the settlers also were killed in battle, and others with their wives and children were murdered. An immense amount of valuable property was destroyed, and a very heavy debt was incurred. If only one-half the amount of it had been spent in the development of the resources of the Colony, in what a different position would New Zealand now have been! And yet, by reason of its insular position, the Whites had greater facilities for carrying on a war against the Maories than the Whites in the Cape of Good Hope would have of carrying on war against the coloured people, if war between them should unhappily be kindled. And this great misfortune of a war between the two races will be almost the inevitable result of establishing the proposed system of government in the Colony. If power is exercised exclusively by the Whites, no one who is aware of their feelings to the coloured race can anticipate that justice and a proper consideration for their feelings will be shown in the conduct of the Government. If, on the other hand, the native population are taught to avail themselves of their legal right to vote, and become by their superior numbers masters of the Assembly, the result may be even worse—the powers of government will then fall into the hands of men 1635 elected by an ignorant coloured population, utterly incapable of judging of their own interests. This is so little an impossible result that it appears by the Papers before us that already contending factions among the Whites have in the elections appealed to the coloured inhabitants, and that some elections have been decided by the latter. Surely a population of this kind is not one which can be safely trusted to manage the affairs of the Colony. And it is not only the internal affairs of the Colony that its Government will have to administer. It will also have to manage its relations with the inhabitants of the vast regions beyond the frontier. In these districts are to be found two Republics composed of the descendants of the Dutch farmers who left the Colony in consequence of their discontent at the abolition of slavery; and there are also various native tribes. Between these races there are frequent disputes and collisions, and were it not for the controlling power of the British Government there would be fearful confusion and bloodshed. The Dutch cruelly oppress the Blacks. Papers laid before Parliament three years ago show that the Dutch communities in South Africa were kidnapping the natives for the purposes of the slave trade. The evil has hitherto been checked very much by the authority of the British Government, and the coloured population are so satisfied of the fairness and justice towards them of the British Government as it has hitherto been administered, that there is a growing desire among them to be received as subjects of Her Majesty and to tender their allegiance to the British Crown. In the Colony of Natal you have 250,000 coloured people with a very small White population. By the labour of those coloured people the industry of the Colony is carried on, and they are assisted by large numbers of persons of the same race who come in every year at the time when labour is most wanted, who earn large sums of money and return to their own country with a good deal of property, and also with the rudiments of civilization. Under this system order is preserved, on the whole, in a marvellous manner in wide tracts of South Africa by the confidence which is felt in the impartial authority of the British Crown. And by the preservation of order, by the encouragement thus given to trade, and 1636 by the progress of industry in our own colonies, civilization is slowly, but gradually diffusing itself over a great mass of the coloured population, and Christianity is accompanying civilization. But when you establish this proposed system of responsible government, all these happy results will be imperilled. The confidence now existing in the fairness and impartiality of the Government will be destroyed, and with the present amount of White population in the Colonies, and having entirely withdrawn all assistance to them from the Mother Country—which appears now to be the policy acted upon—you will run the risk of having the immense coloured population scattered over a large part of South Africa excited by wrongs, and instead of their being, as now, loyal and friendly to the British Government, and ready to support it, you will have them engaged in war to the death with all the White settlers. Can you look at the probability of such a state of things without the greatest alarm? Yet, it is the simple truth that you have this to apprehend. My noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies in his speech just now told us in all probability if you give responsible government it will not stop there. There must be some change in the relations between the Cape Colony and the adjoining districts, and he shadowed out a system of federation. But can anything like a fair system of federation be established between the White communities and the coloured tribes so totally alien from them in feeling, in manner, and in character? By the laws of the Free State the coloured population are not able to acquire any property in land, nor to exercise any franchise whatever, and they are treated as the merest hewers of wood and drawers of water for the benefit of the White inhabitants; and are we to hand over a large coloured population to the tender mercies of the White settlers? And this system of responsible government so unsuitable to the circumstances of the Colony has not been asked for by it. On the contrary, it has been pressed upon them, without success by Her Majesty's Ministers. Hitherto all the influence of the Government has been used in the most decided manner, and yet it has failed to carry the proposal of responsible government through the Cape Parliament. What is the object to be attained by pressing this proposal? 1637 Is it the saving of a small sum of money? Considering the disposition of the coloured population to rely on the British Government for protection and assistance, and to adopt its advice in all their measures, I have not the smallest doubt that by a judicious exercise of the powers at present belonging to the Crown, the means of maintaining all the political organization which is at present necessary for that part of the world might be obtained without difficulty. But if it were otherwise, would it be worthy of a great nation, for the sake of a trifling and infinitesimal saving of expenditure, to incur the risk of such deplorable consequences as I have indicated? The Governor, in one of his despatches, said it had been the fixed determination for many years of the British Government to treat with the coldest apathy and greatest indifference to results any people who did not directly and immediately affect themselves. I am unwilling, my Lords, to believe that this country has so degenerated from the spirit which formerly actuated it as to be indifferent to the welfare of civilization and the happiness of that large part of the human race which Providence has placed under our power and our influence. My Lords, that power and that influence which we possess carries with it a great responsibility; and I am persuaded that this nation, which used to think it a matter of great interest that we should suppress the slave trade and promote the abolition of slavery, will not now regard it as a matter of indifference to allow the whole of South Africa to become the scene of anarchy and bloodshed, and the present state of advancing civilization to be blighted and ruined in regions inhabited by many hundreds of thousands of helpless human beings. This, I do not believe, would be the real sentiment of the English people if they understood the real point at issue; and I hope and trust that, before it is too late, their opinions may be expressed on this important question.
§ LORD LYVEDENsaid, the noble Marquess had done good service by bringing this subject forward. He could not, however, agree with the noble Earl who had just spoken (Earl Grey), in thinking that the Secretary of State for the Colonies had shown any undue haste in pressing on the Colony of the Cape the consideration of the question of re- 1638 sponsible government; but he did think he had committed an error in not having furnished sufficient information to enable their Lordships to discuss that subject that evening in a satisfactory manner; because the information now before them was very meagre. He did not think the noble Earl who had just sat down had strengthened his position by introducing the case of New Zealand, because he was not prepared to admit that responsible government had wholly failed in that Colony, whatever difficulties might have arisen in carrying out the experiment there at an earlier stage. He quite dissented from the noble Earl on the question of self-government. He believed that the concession of self-government to our colonies had been a very wise measure; and that if that concession had not been made, possibly we should by this time have lost one-half of those possessions. He recommended that the opinion of the population should be so taken as regards electoral districts that the opinion of the Blacks could be distinguished from that of the Whites.
§ EARL GRANVILLEquite agreed with the noble Baron that the noble Marquess had done quite properly in bringing the subject under the notice of their Lordships; but he could assure their Lordships that there was no subject so difficult in politics as to know how to deal with colonies. During the time he was at the Colonial Office no subject caused him more difficulty than the way in which it was best to deal with the Cape Colony. His noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies had truly stated that responsible government was, as a rule, proceeding favourably in our colonies. The noble Earl (Earl Grey) seemed desirous of maintaining the system of five-and-twenty years ago; if, however, that policy had been pursued, it would have resulted in an entire stoppage in many cases. The noble Earl then referred to New Zealand as an instance of the failure of responsible government; but if the case of New Zealand proved anything it proved the expediency of allowing colonies to trust to themselves. The reasonable wish of the New Zealand colonists to obtain more land, coupled with a knowledge that they could count on the support of the Imperial Government, produced the greater part of the evils 1639 which, afflicted the Colony for several years; but nothing could have been more satisfactory than the state of the Colony since the colonists had to trust to themselves. Although he had always expected this would be so, the actual result had exceeded his expectations. Not only had the relations between the Whites and the natives improved, but several natives were actually sitting in the New Zealand Legislature. Canada was another instance of good judgment with regard to the native population on the part of the Colonial Government. With these facts before him, he denied altogether that responsible government on the part of a colony must fall through. The noble Earl had expressed the opinion that things were going on under the old régime very well; but Sir Philip Wodehouse—especially remarkable for his great personal energy and experience—had expressed a most decided opinion that things were coming to a dead-lock, and that the Government was bound seriously to consider the question of the future government of the Colony. The Colony was rapidly approaching to a state of bankruptcy; and under these circumstances a heavy responsibility pressed upon the Government and urgently required them to take immediate action. The state of things was represented to be so bad that it was necessary either to strengthen the hands of the Executive Government, or to establish responsible government. He (Earl Granville) refrained from a hasty decision. Sir Henry Barkly believed a stagnation existed in the Cape, and that nothing short of responsible government would stimulate the leading men. The result had greatly surprised him. Qualities had been developed in public men at the Cape in the most unexpected manner. Of course, it was possible difficulties would arise in the future; but he did not look forward to that future with the alarm which agitated the two noble Lords who had spoken from the Opposition.