Lords Sitting of 7 March 1872

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Life Assurance Companies Acts Amendment* (40).
Second Reading—Bank of Ireland Charter Amendment (37).
Committee—Report—Irish Church Act Amendment* (27); Public Parks (Ireland)* (30).

BANK OF IRELAND CHARTER AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 37.)
(The Earl of Meath.)
BANK OF IRELAND CHARTER AMENDMENT BILL.—(No. 37.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading, read.
  THE EARL OF MEATHsaid, that the object of the Bill was to reduce the number of Directors of the Bank of Ireland, who were elected by the members of that Corporation, from 15 to 13 or 11, as the members might think fit, exclusive, as at present, of the Governor
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  and Deputy Governor. At present not more than two-thirds of the Directors of one year were re-eligible for the next. The Bill proposed that the retiring Directors should not be disqualified for re-election. The Bill also proposed to reduce the quorum necessary to constitute a court from 8 to 7 if the number of Directors should be reduced to 13, or to 6 if reduced to 11, and also to change the rule requiring that retiring Directors should remain out of office for a year before being eligible for re-election.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Earl of Meath.)
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, that while he intended to offer no opposition to the Bill, he desired to say that he doubted whether it was advisable to change the rule requiring retiring Directors to remain out of office for a year. Such a rule prevailed in the Bank of England, and it enabled a board to let any retiring Director whom it might not be desirable to re-elect drop out without offence. The provision enabling the members to reduce the number of Directors might, perhaps, prove useful.
  VISCOUNT HALIFAXsaid, he concurred with what been said by the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees.
  Motion agreed to; Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House To-morrow.

METROPOLITAN STREET TRAFFIC, 30 & 31 VICT., CAP. 134.

  OBSERVATIONS.
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYcalled the attention of Her Majesty's Government to the unsatisfactory manner in which the Act for regulating Traffic in the Metropolis, 30th and 31st of Victoria, is enforced, in consequence of not sufficiently extending the special limits authorized by the said Act. His Notice had more especial reference to the discipline of the street traffic of London so far as it affected the footways and the comfort of foot passengers. In 1867 the Government of Lord Derby passed a Bill to regulate the traffic of the streets of London, which had increased so enormously as to render it necessary to introduce a Bill conferring on the police the powers necessary to regulate it. Since that time, no doubt, the

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  traffic of foot passengers had been diminished by the construction of underground railways; but it would always be very great; and there were some localities in which the traffic—especially as regarded the safety of foot passengers—would always require regulation, and he hoped the Government would insist upon the more complete enforcement of the Act of 1867. That Act contained provisions for the suppression of several causes of inconvenience to pedestrians. Among other sections was one which made it illegal to unload coals from waggons between the hours of 10 in the morning and 6 in the evening, or to unload casks by means of a rope or chain across the footways; but this section did not apply to a thoroughfare till such thoroughfare was brought within the "special limits" by the Secretary of State and the Commissioners of Police. No doubt it was intended at the time of the passing of the Act that the whole of London should not be at once brought under it; but that, commencing with the largest thoroughfares, the authorities should gradually increase the number of streets to which the limitation should apply until all the streets were brought under the Act. He knew that that was the course which the late Sir Richard Mayne had proposed to adopt; but it had not been adhered to. Restricting himself entirely to the nuisances to which pedestrians were exposed, he considered that one of the greatest was the unloading of coals from waggons, which went on at all hours of the day when the streets were fullest of people. This occurrence was most common in those districts which were not so directly under the observation of the Commissioners. It was a very common and great nuisance in winter, because almost everybody, partly from carelessness and partly from overlooking the fact, that in summer coals could be purchased at 20 to 30 per cent cheaper than in winter, waited until they were reminded by cold weather, when they hastened to lay in their supply when they were higher in price, and the streets filled with mud and slush. The consequence was, that in the latter end of November and the beginning of December, when the severe weather set in, coals were being unloaded in all directions. During all hours of the daylight last winter, and the winter before, this was the case. He (the Earl
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  of Malmesbury) walked out on two occasions in the month of December through South Audley Street, Portman Square, Gloucester Place, Park Street, Manchester Square, Duke Street, and down to Oxford Street. While taking that walk he was driven from one side of the street to the other no fewer than 15 times. No sooner had he crossed from one side where coals were being unloaded than he came upon the same operation at the other side. The pavement was covered with coals, the vault was open, the cart was backed up to the footway, and in some cases the horses were not even "doubled up" but extended in line across the roadway. The weather was wet, the streets were at their worst, and the inconvenience to women and children obliged to walk through those streets must have been very great. The Act gave powers, which, if carried into effect, would be sufficient for the purpose, and he hoped Her Majesty's Government would give some attention to the subject.
  THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, the Act which the noble Earl had alluded contained a number of heterogeneous provisions; but there could be no question that it had been very beneficial in respect of the management of the traffic in the streets of the metropolis. The list of streets brought within its provisions was a very long one, and contained most of the great thoroughfares of the metropolis. The Act, as the noble Earl had stated, contained a special provision regarding the unloading of coals; but the proposition gave rise to considerable opposition when the measure was before Parliament. One ground of opposition to it was that put forward by the coal merchants, who said that if it were adopted their horses would be useless to them during many hours of the day. Of course it was desirable in carrying out an arrangement of this kind that care should be taken to avoid as much as possible anything that could give occasion for irritation. When the Act was passed it was proposed to include Park Lane and Piccadilly within its operation; but the Vestry of St. George's, Hanover Square, objected. It was proposed also to include Blackman Street, and other thoroughfares in the Borough, but a Vestry on that side of the water objected. All those streets had since been included. There were difficulties in the way of extending

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  the "special limits" in the way the noble Earl suggested; but during the past year six new streets had been included within the special limits. The Commissioner of Police, in selecting such roads, had made it his business to ascertain through which thoroughfares the great business of the metropolis passed, and to these the special limits were confined. If the noble Earl thought there were other streets which should be included, the Commissioner would be ready to consider them; but for his own part—though he quite sympathized with the noble Earl—he believed there was not sufficient inconvenience in the streets mentioned by the noble Earl to justify their being placed under the Act. Of course, streets would be added to the list from time to time; but the universal application of the powers of the Act would require serious consideration.
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYobserved that the streets he had referred to were certainly principal streets with a large passenger traffic from the north and south of London. As to a class interest, such as that of the coal merchants objecting, it must be expected that some class interest would be opposed to every improvement. If the horses were occupied in the morning they could not be used in the day—it came to the same thing in the end; but the coal merchants did not like it because they were not used to it.

IRISH MILITIA.

  MOTION FOR RETURNS.
  THE EARL OF LIMERICK, in moving an Address for Return of—

  (1.) The establishments of the regiments of Irish Militia:

  (2.) Numbers present at the last training of each regiment:

  (3.) Numbers on the roll of each regiment on the 1st March 1872:

  (4.) Number in each regiment enrolled in the Militia Reserve on the 1st March 1872,

  said, that as the Irish Militia had not been called out during a period of six years, and were called out last year, he thought the Returns asked for would supply very desirable information.
  THE EARL OF LONGFORDsaid, that last year, when the Militia were called out for the first time, it was found very advantageous to place them in permanent or temporary barracks, instead of
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  billeting them out; but in order to make room for them the regular troops were, in many cases, placed in tents. He desired, therefore, to urge on the Government the further use of Irish workhouses for the accommodation of the Militia when out for training. The billeting system was attended with much inconvenience, both to the men and the inhabitants, and therefore it was desirable that whenever it was possible there should be barrack accommodation for soldiers and militiamen who had to be lodged. Last year some of the workhouses had been used, and the experiment might, with advantage, be carried still further.
  LORD NORTHBROOKsaid, there was no objection to the Returns moved for by the noble Earl (the Earl of Limerick). He was glad to be able to take this opportunity of saying that the calling out of the Irish Militia last year had been attended with very satisfactory results. Recruiting had gone on to the fullest extent expected, and there was reason to believe that next year the force would be brought up to the full establishment strength. In the next place, the Inspector General of Militia in Ireland reported that the officers and men had shown the greatest possible zeal in learning their duties, though they had come together under the great disadvantages arising from a great number of troops having to form new battalions. The Inspector General further stated that there had been no disturbance of any serious character between the people and the Militia, and that no case of Fenianism or other disloyalty had been established against any man of the force. He was entitled to say, therefore, that the results of calling out the Irish Militia had been satisfactory. As regarded what had been said about billeting, the evils of that system had been fully recognized. In Ireland those evils were remedied to some extent last year by, as the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Longford) had said, some inconvenience to the Army; but that was an inconvenience which to he was sure the officers and men had willingly submitted in consideration of the enormous advantages which had resulted from it. The workhouses, for the first time, were made use of for some regiments of Militia, and he was happy to learn that no feeling had been exhibited by the men against that

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  arrangement, which would probably be carried out to a larger extent hereafter. With regard to billeting for the Militia generally, he would remind their Lordships that by the scheme for the re-organization of the Army it was intended to provide for the training of the Militia in barracks or camps, and he trusted the scheme would permanently and completely remedy the evils of billeting which were so justly condemned by all who had at heart the interests not only of the Militia, but of the population in the midst of which they were assembled.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, it did not speak well for the economy of the War Department that barracks in Ireland which had been condemned and others, which were too small for the proper accommodation of troops, were allowed to stand, though money could be obtained for them.
  Motion agreed to:—Returns ordered.

  LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANIES ACTS AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the Life Assurance Companies Acts, 1870 and 1871—Was presented by The Earl COWPER; read 1a. (No. 40.)
  House adjourned at Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.