SECOND READING. (Hansard, 18 July 1871)

§ LORD O'HAGAN
, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that its object was to give certain administrative powers to the Charity Commissioners of Ireland, and to make regulations with regard to their proceedings. The present Board consisted of five Commissioners, and as it was sometimes difficult to get five gentlemen together to gratuitously administer charitable funds, it was now proposed that three Commissioners should be deemed sufficient. Then there was a proviso inserted in the Bill with regard to the cy prés power of the Board. In a number of small charities it was found impossible to carry out precisely the intentions of the testators, and as the Commissioners had at present no powers to vary the strict application of the fund, they were by this Bill empowered, in the case of donations and bequests not exceeding £300 principals or £30 annual, to direct the trustees to apply the fund to such pious and charitable purposes as they shall judge to be best, having regard to the direction and intention of the donors; and in the case of larger charities the Commissioners were to apply for directions to the Court of Chancery, as provided by the 30 & 31 Vict. c. 54, sec. 8. There were many other provisions in the Bill relating to smaller matters, but he need not trouble their Lordships with them now. The Bill had been most carefully considered, and it was entirely approved by the Commissioners themselves.

§ THE EARL OF POWIS
objected to some of the powers conferred on the Commissioners as too large. Some of the proposals of the Bill were unobjectionable; but others, he thought, were to be looked upon with suspicion.

THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE
feared there was little chance of the Bill passing through the other House, the Government haying abandoned two more important Irish measures—the Debtors 1929 Bill and the Bankruptcy Bill—though the first of these would have liberated persons now in prison under a system which had been amended in England. Those Bills, which had been long under consideration, might have been passed earlier in the Session by dint of a little energy and forethought, and he regretted their failure the more as the wish for "Home Rule" and the feeling that their interests were subordinated to party interests were every day extending among the people of Ireland.

§ EARL GRANVILLE
said, the noble Marquess was irregular in referring to the progress of legislation in the other House on the second reading of this Bill; but he supposed the noble Marquess, like other persons who took an interest in any particular measure, was of opinion that it should be carried at the expense of other Bills. The noble Marquess must be aware that there had been some obstruction to legislation in both Houses, and the Government had thought it only fair to announce that Bills the passage of which was hopeless would not be proceed with. Considering the amount of Irish legislation since the last General Election, the noble Marquess could not think Ireland had been neglected by the Government.

§ THE DUKE OF RICHMOND
said, he was not responsible for whatever might have happened in the other House, and he was at a loss to know of any obstruction to legislation in this House.

§ EARL GRANVILLE
said, he did not intend to re-open last night's debate; but the Amendment then carried by a considerable majority certainly amounted to an obstruction of legislation. ["Order!]

§ LORD O'HAGAN
, in reply, gave a short explanation.