QUESTION. (Hansard, 11 August 1871)

§ THE EARL OF HARROWBY
asked the Lord President of the Council—1, Whether teachers of 35 years of age and of ten years' standing, being well reported 1423 of by the Inspector, will, for the next three years, be regarded as certificated teachers, so far as to make their schools eligible for a capitation grant; and 2, whether small endowments are now allowed to be counted as subscriptions in schools; to what extent; and under what circumstances? The noble Earl remarked, with reference to the second part of his Question, that formerly money coming from endowments was not counted in favour of a school as entitling it to receive the Government grant; but when the new Bill was passed there was added, after considerable discussion, a provision to this effect:— The conditions required to be fulfilled by an elementary school in order to obtain an annual Parliamentary grant, shall be those contained in the Minutes of the Education Department in force for the time being, and shall, amongst other things, provide that after the 31st March, 1871, first, that such grants shall not be made in respect of instruction in religious subjects; and, secondly, such grants shall not for any year exceed the income of the school for that year derived from voluntary contributions, from school fees, and from any sources other than the Parliamentary grant. The point he wished to have decided was whether the words "from any sources other than the Parliamentary grant" would apply to such small endowments as he had mentioned, or whether those endowments ought not to be reckoned in favour of a school on behalf of the Government grant? If they were not so regarded, it would be impossible for many small schools to be maintained in the future. The result, indeed, would be in some cases to supersede them by a school board and a rate-supported school. He believed a promise was given when the Act was discussed that the endowments should be reckoned, and that otherwise the term "other sources" would have no meaning.

§ THE MARQUESS OF RIPON
said, with respect to the first part of the Question, under the 59th Article of the New Code certificates would be granted to the teachers in question for a period of three years, adding that certificates awarded during the years named would hold good after that period. As to the second Question, the old rule was that the amount accruing from endowments should be deducted from the Government grant, and the change made under the recent Act had improved the position of such schools, there being no longer that deduction, 1424 though the endowments were not, as the noble Earl (the Earl of Harrowby) desired, reckoned with the voluntary contributions as giving a title to an increased Government grant. He did not think any hardship would be inflicted on these schools by the adoption of that principle; but that, in fact, they would be in a better position than before. In no case would endowments be deducted, and the amount received by these schools under the New Code would be in excess of what they would have earned under the former system.

§ THE EARL OF HARROWBY
asked, If hereafter small sums were contributed for endowing parish schools, and the Endowed Schools Commission thought there was an excess of endowment over what was necessary for their maintenance, that excess might be taken away?

§ THE MARQUESS OF RIPON
said, that would depend on the scheme of the Endowed Schools Commission. The Commissioners might lay down a certain principle; but in every case there must be a separate scheme which was to be laid before both Houses of Parliament. Where the excess of endowment was of any amount it might be applied to the foundation of an exhibition or scholarship in a school of a higher grade, for the benefit of the scholars of a particular parish school.

§ LORD REDESDALE
observed, that there was no power to rate the inhabitants for the higher class schools; but if the Commissioners took the endowments which rendered rating unnecessary in a small parish, and applied them to other purposes than the maintenance of the elementary school, the effect would be to rate the parish for the higher education.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
thought the noble Lord took a very narrow view of the case if he objected to the placing of some increased burden on the ratepayers in order that the endowments might be applied to promoting higher education in the parishes.

§ LORD REDESDALE
was of opinion that when a person had left an endowment for the purpose of establishing a school in a parish, and the money was still necessary for the maintenance of the school, it ought not to be applied to any other purpose.