Lords Sitting of 13 May 1870

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Poor Relief (Metropolis) * (97).
Second Reading—Oyster and Mussel Fisheries Supplemental (No. 2)* (82).
Third Reading—Ecclesiastical Patronage Transfer* (55); War Office * (92), and passed.

HAWKERS' LICENCES.—QUESTION.
THE EARL OF AIRLIErose to ask, Whether Her Majesty's Government intended to propose any measure for the better regulation of the trade of travelling hawkers and pedlars? Their Lordships had, no doubt, seen a letter in the newspapers signed by a noble Lord whom, he did not now see present (Lord Kinnaird), on the subject of the proposal made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to remit the Excise duties on hawkers' licences; and he believed that many similar representations had been made against the proposed remission. Now, he must say that these objections did not appear to him to be well founded. It must be remembered that the present tax pressed heavily upon a class of poor men, whose customers were also poor; and, as everyone knew, the mere possession of a licence afforded a very small guarantee as to the respectability of the holder of it. Indeed, it appeared to him that the present system tended rather to throw obstacles in the way of the police; for if they had any reason to think that a particular hawker was a suspicious character, he had only to produce his licence, and the police could not interfere further with him. The objections he thought rather tended to the adoption of some substitute to the present system rather than that it should be continued. At the same time there could be no doubt it was necessary that there should be police supervision, or check of some kind upon this class of persons. Many of them, he did not doubt, were struggling to earn a respectable living for themselves and their families; but there were many of whom that could not be said. They went about the country pretending to sell small articles, but really looking about for what they could steal: they were a great means of inducing others to steal; their houses of call were often the receptacles of stolen goods, and the haunts of poachers. Some of them were
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sturdy beggars, going about the country when the men were absent at work, and compelling the women in the houses to give them money. There was, therefore, a clear case for police supervision of some kind. He thought that a system of registration might be adopted, and that this might be so arranged as to put an effectual check upon the evils of the system without any inconvenience to the respectable class of hawkers.
THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, he would not go at length into the question, but he could inform his noble Friend that Her Majesty's Government were of opinion that, if the proposals of the Chancellor of the Exchequer should be carried into effect, some such arrangement as his noble Friend suggested would be necessary, and in all probability, a measure for that purpose would be introduced into Parliament in the course of the present Session.

SOUTH KENSINGTON MUSEUM.

  QUESTION.
  EARL CADOGANasked the Lord President of the Council, Whether his attention had been called to an advertisement, which appeared in some of the daily papers on Friday, the 6th of this month, containing a detailed description of a diadem, composed of precious stones, on view at the South Kensington Museum, and whether it was considered in accordance with the objects of that institution and the regulations under which it was managed that articles should be exposed for exhibition there for the purpose of promoting their sale? The advertisement, after describing the diadem, added—"For further particulars apply to a certain locality between the hours of 12 and 2." Now, though there was some ambiguity about this intimation, yet there could be no doubt that the object was to attract the attention of persons who might be disposed to purchase the diadem. If that were so, it was not a fit object to be in the Kensington Museum. He was as fully aware as any of their Lordships could be of the advantage to the country in forming such an institution, and he was perfectly conscious of the great benefit it conferred upon the middle classes—especially in the work of education—by the facilities it afforded for giving instruction in the various processes of manufactured goods.

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  But just because of the importance of this institution he thought an impression should not get abroad that the Museum was diverted from its proper and legitimate objects to minister to the personal advantage of individuals. He was certain that his noble Friend (Earl Granville) would spare no pains to have this matter cleared up, and he hoped that he would be able to corroborate on authority the explanation that had appeared in the newspapers a few days ago. The explanation was to the effect that the loan of the diadem had been conditionally accepted by the Government, one of the conditions being that it must remain in the Museum for six months; and that on the owners asking if they might advertise it, they were distinctly and emphatically told that an advertisement could not be allowed. When the advertisement did appear the owners were told to remove it at once, and that was done accordingly. All who wished well to the Museum must hope that this was a correct statement. The institution was supported by a largo grant of public money, and it ought not to be diverted from its public purposes to minister to the gain of individuals.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONthanked his noble Friend for having given him an opportunity to set the public mind right upon this matter. He had great satisfaction in hearing those expressions from his noble Friend as to the utility and importance of the South Kensington Museum, and he agreed with his noble Friend that it would tend to weaken its usefulness if it were to become a means of advertising the goods and facilitating the sale of merchandise of private individuals. But he was happy to say that on this occasion the rules of the Museum had been strictly adhered to. Those rules were, that the institution should be devoted to the purposes of Art—that nothing was to be exhibited for sale. The diadem in question was accepted on the usual terms of a loan. It was received into the Museum on the 28th of last month; the attention of the authorities was called to the advertisement on the 3rd of May; and on that very day the diadem was taken down and removed, and a letter was written to the owner informing him that he had violated the rules of the Museum, and that the diadem must be taken away; and that was accordingly done on the
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  following day. His noble Friend would thus see that the rules of the Museum had been strictly carried out; and he was glad that by thus calling attention to the matter he had an opportunity of showing that the authorities at the Museum had not failed in their their duty.

METROPOLIS—KENSINGTON GARDENS.

  QUESTION.
  THE DUKE OF RUTLANDasked the noble Earl the President of the Council, Whether there was any truth in the rumour that a portion of Kensington Gardens, near the Albert Memorial, would be taken away, and that a road would be made through the centre of the Gardens from north to south. He hoped to hear that the statemeut had no foundation?
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, he did not know why the noble Duke had addressed his Question to him, as the matter was not one within his control; but he was happy to give him the information which he had received from the proper quarter. It was altogether incorrect that it was proposed to take away any portion of Kensington Gardens—indeed, it was not impossible that some portion of Hyde Park might be added to the Gardens. He was also informed that there was no intention of forming a road through the centre of the Gardens from north to south.
  House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, to Monday next, Eleven o'clock.