HL Deb 27 June 1870 vol 202 cc953-4

Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a"—(The Lord Bishop of Winchester.)

LORD CAIRNS

stated that he should not persist in his Amendment for the rejection of the measure, as the right rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Winchester) had met his greatest objection to it—the forfeiture of a benefice by decision of the Bishop, with an appeal to the Archbishop—by consenting that the inquiry by the Bishop should have a judicial character, and that there should be an appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. Though still deeming the provisions of the Bill too harsh, he would, not propose the rejection of a measure which their Lordships had received with so much favour.

THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORK

said, he regretted the concession of his right rev. Brother—it seemed to him to alter the principle of the Bill. An inquiry by the Bishop with an appeal, passing over the Archbishop, to the Privy Council, would involve such an enormous expense that many right rev. Prelates would shrink from putting the measure in force.

LORD PORTMAN

objected to the vesting of such authority in the Bishop, and to affording so mischievous a power to a spiteful creditor. He trusted that the Bill would be rejected in "another place."

LORD WESTBURY

approved the provision enabling the Bishop to appropriate a larger portion of the revenue of a sequestrated living to the spiritual necessities of the parish; but objected to those clauses which deprived the creditors of their rights, and imposed on an embarrassed clergyman the stigma of passing through the Bankruptcy Court.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

said, that while he admitted that the concession of the right rev. Prelate would materially injure the Bill, nevertheless he hoped the measure would be accepted as a decided step in advance, for it declared almost for the first time that the clergyman existed for the parish and not the parish for the clergyman, and made a breach in that freehold position which had been carried so far as to pro- duce much harm. It would remove the scandal of a clergyman pledging the income of his benefice to his private creditors, which no naval or military officer or civil servant was allowed to do.

THE BISHOP OF GLOUCESTER AND BRISTOL

said, that the members of the Episcopal Bench could particularize cases, were it not invidious to do so, in which very large funds were alienated from the parish. He could not concur in the concordat of his right rev. Brother and the noble and learned Lord, for it would not only entail great expense, but, by passing over the Archbishop, would reverse the present principle of ecclesiastical jurisdiction.

THE DUKE OF SOMERSET

believed the result of the Bill would be that clergymen who borrowed money would have to pay 8 or 10 per cent, instead of 4, the security of the revenue of their benefices being withdrawn.

EARL GRANVILLE

suggested the adjournment of the debate, it having been the wish of both sides that no business giving rise to discussion should stand in the way of the Irish Land Bill.

Further Debate adjourned to Monday next.