(NO. 171.) THIRD READING. (Hansard, 14 July 1870)

THE EARL OF AIRLIE
said, he did I not want to obstruct the progress of the Bill; but he thought it was one which their Lordships should not allow to pass the final stage without further inquiry. The Bill had passed through the other House without receiving any discussion; and the second reading had been agreed to in their Lordships' House, and the Bill had passed through Committee without, so far as he remembered, a single word of comment. Now, he thought that if their Lordships had been aware of the nature of the measure, it would not have passed those stages without opposition. Its provisions seemed to have been drawn up entirely in the interests of the Irish cattle exporters, and all provisions against the importation of disease with the cattle had been ignored. Very careful regulations had been laid down guarding the importation of cattle into Ireland, but none with regard to exportation from Ireland. He had, therefore, placed some Amendments on the Paper by which he proposed to remedy these defects. Competent judges had declared that Irish cattle were subject to a great many diseases, and he thought it of importance that the exportation of those diseases should be guarded against as far as possible; and, therefore, he considered it only fair to England and Scotland that these Amendments should be introduced. Clause 2 required that cattle brought into Ireland should be provided with hay and water. No doubt, those regulations were very good; but there were no corresponding regulations in respect to cattle exported from Ireland; and, therefore, he proposed to introduce an Amendment into the clause to supply that omission. Again, large powers were given by the Bill to the Lord Lieutenant to prohibit cattle entering any Irish port from England or Scotland if he thought fit; but there was no analogous power whatever given in regard to the exportation of Irish cattle into England or Scotland. He, therefore, would propose an Amendment, to follow Clause 236 5, providing that cattle should not be shipped from any Irish port without a certificate as to their sound condition from the inspector of the port. Pleuropneumonia had been spread in this country by the Irish cattle brought over to Liverpool, Glasgow, and other places. Unless some such Amendment as he suggested were adopted, the owners of unsound or diseased cattle in Ireland would have every inducement to get rid of them by exportation to England and Scotland. He should be sorry that anything he might propose should have an injurious effect upon Irish landlords, but he did not believe the Amendments he should propose would have any such effect.

§ EARL SPENCER
protested against the general attack made by the noble Earl on Irish cattle. He had never seen any proof that the Irish cattle were inferior to English or Scotch, or had more disease among them than any cattle moved from one part of Great Britain to another. He had no objection to the two first Amendments, but he opposed the third—the certificate system—as being wholly unnecessary. It would be unjust to bind down the Irish cattle trade by the severest restrictions by Act of Parliament—especially seeing that the Lord Lieutenant and the Privy Council of Ireland had ample power to issue such regulations as in their discretion they deemed requisite. The Bill now before the House put the Irish cattle trade in precisely the same position as the English trade was placed by the consolidated Act passed last year, and it would provide proper safeguards against cattle disease both in Ireland and in Great Britain.

§ THE DUKE OF RICHMOND
said, it was not denied that there was disease among the cattle of Ireland now, and the introduction of this very Bill itself was some evidence of this fact. Why, then, should they not insist on the insertion of provisions which would prevent its spread to England and Scotland? He ventured to say, notwithstanding what had been said by his noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, that Irish cattle had brought disease to Scotland to a very serious extent. The noble Earl said that he had ample power by an Order in Council to deal with all cases of cattle disease. Why, then, had the noble Earl not exercised those powers?

§ EARL SPENCER
said, he had meant to say that the Bill before the House would give him ample powers.

§ THE DUKE OF RICHMOND
The necessity of granting those powers was a good reason why this Act should be passed, and why it should not be confined to Ireland alone. The Bill would not, no doubt, place Ireland in a worse position; but how would it affect England and Scotland? That was a question worthy of consideration. He could not see what sound objection could be taken to the certificate system proposed by the noble Earl (the Earl of Airlie). It was in the interest of England and Scotland that there should be some such provision. The Amendment of his noble Friend was a very reasonable one; and, if he took the sense of the House upon it, he should vote with him.

§ LORD TALBOT DE MALAHIDE
observed that the most diseased animal he had ever had he had imported direct from Scotland.

LORD DUNSANY
hoped the House would not support the Amendment. The interests of the manufacturing population of Lancashire and West Yorkshire were quite as much concerned as Irish interests, and if the people of those districts were able now to buy meat at a reasonable price, it was owing to this—that there was some grass growing in Ireland, while there was none in this country. Pretty nearly every Monday's market at Liverpool was stocked by 3,000 or 4,000 head of Irish cattle, and three or four times that number of sheep, and did the noble Earl mean that for every one of these 4,000 cattle and 16,000 sheep a certificate must be obtained not only that they were sound, but that for a period of three months preceding they had not been in the way of any contagious disease? No veterinary surgeon could certify on view of the animal that it had not been for three months in the way of contagion.