Lords Sitting of 28 February 1870

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—Second Reading—Dissolved Districts and Unions* (15).
Committee—Sunday Trading (5–19); Judges' Jurisdiction (10–20).
Third Reading—Provisional Orders Bills (Committees)* (11), and passed.

SUNDAY TRADING BILL—(No. 5.)
(The Lord Chelmsford.)
SUNDAY TRADING BILL—(No. 5.)

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to Order).
  Clause 1 (Penalties for selling, offering, and exposing for sale) agreed to.
  Clause 2 (Certain cases to which this Act does not apply).
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY moved that the sale of all excepted articles be permitted till 10 a.m., instead of, in some cases, 9 a.m.
  Amendment agreed to.
  THE EARL OF AIRLIEproposed that butter and eggs be included among the excepted articles.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid, he thought there was something to be said in favour of butter, it being a perishable article; whereas eggs could be kept a considerable time.
  LORD CHELMSFORDobjected to the Amendment, which it was understood was not pressed.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 3 (Provisions as to distinct and separate offences).
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYproposed the omission of the words "nor less than 20 s.," urging that the magistrates should have a discretion as to the amount of penalty.
  LORD CHELMSFORDexplained that he had inserted the words on account of this being the penalty under the statute of Charles II., which he did not propose to diminish.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid, he did not see why Parliament should be bound by that statute, for people, it was to be hoped, had grown wiser during the last 200 years. Under this, as under any Act, cases of hardship might arise, and it was better to give the magistrates a discretion.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Words "or in default of payment not exceeding one month's imprisonment," inserted.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 4 agreed to.
  Clause 5 (Appropriations of penalties).
  THE EARL OF MORLEYproposed an Amendment providing that the Act of Charles II. should be repealed as far as it applied to places affected by this Bill.
  LORD CHELMSFORDdid not object to the proviso, though thinking it unnecessary; but he suggested some alteration in its terms.
  THE EARL OF MORLEYassented to this.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  The Report of the Amendments to be received To-morrow; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 19.)

RIVERS SHANNON AND SUCK.

  MOTION FOR A PAPER.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE,in moving for "Copy of a letter from Mr. Stansfeld to the Marquess of Clanricarde, dated 2d of February, relating to the drainage of the Rivers Shannon and Suck, and its enclosure," said, that as this subject had been considered by a Committee of the House a few years ago, he thought it right that this document should be laid before them. In the communication with which he had been favoured by the Secretary to the Treasury, on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, there was an ambiguity which he desired should be cleared up—namely, whether, in addition to a loan, a grant of public money
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  was to be made to assist in the drainage of the rivers in question?
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE,on the part of the Treasury, said, there was no objection to lay the letter in question before the House. With regard to the ambiguity the noble Marquess had found in that communication, it might be necessary to explain that the drainage of the Shannon and Buck had occupied the attention of successive Governments for something like forty years, and the subject had been under the consideration of successive Committees and Commissions. The works were eventually executed at a cost of £600,000, half of which was provided by the Government, the other moiety being borne by the counties and proprietors interested. The works executed had been severely criticized, and it was complained that they had inflicted great injury on the lands in the neighbourhood of the Shannon Valley, and Mr. Bateman was deputed to inquire whether some further improvements might not be reasonably made. He reported that the works proposed would cost £290,000, and that the profit would probably be £6,000 a year, which capitalized would be equal to £120,000. The Government declined to make the outlay on such un-remunerative terms, but directed the Board of Works in Ireland to inquire whether a partial improvement might not be carried out. Their Report showed that, whereas the improvement of the upper reaches would cost £112,000, and would reclaim 8,000 acres, thus costing £14 per acre, the lower roaches—those below Athlone—might be improved at a cost of about £178,000, whereby 16,000 acres would be reclaimed, thus costing £11 per acre. The Government were, acting on the Report, preparing a Bill for carrying out the improvement of the lower reaches; and, although, of course, anxious to reduce and narrow the deficit as far as possible, they were prepared to make good the difference between the total cost and the sum which the works would return. This would show that they were desirous of promoting the material as well as the economical interests of Ireland.
  Motion agreed to; Paper to be laid before the House.

JUDGES' JURISDICTION BILL—(No. 10.)
(The Lord Chancellor.)
JUDGES' JURISDICTION BILL—(No. 10.)

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to Order).
  Clause 1 (Short title of Act).
  THE LORD CHANCELLOR,with a view of meeting an objection of the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Ellen-borough), proposed the insertion of the words, "and with the consent of the Chief Judge of his own court." This would require the consent of the Chief Judge of any court to any Puisne Judge assisting the Chief Judge of any other court. The noble Earl proposed that the consent of the Lord Chancellor and an interval of fourteen days should be requisite; but the delay which this would involve would defeat the object of the Bill, which was that assistance should be immediately and frequently obtained in the event of the illness of any Judge or other emergency.
  THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGHexpressed himself satisfied with this Amendment, remarking that as the Bill originally stood the Chief Judge from whose court a Puisne Judge was taken would receive no notice.
  Amendment agreed, to.
  Clause, as amended, agreed, to.
  Further Amendments made: The Report of the Amendments to be received To-morrow; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 20.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half past Ten o'clock.