§ THE EARL OF MINTOrose to call attention to the Report of the Select Committee of last Session on the Police Systems of Scotland, and to ask the Government certain Questions in connection with that subject. It was a general impression that these systems were ca- 704 pable of considerable improvement. The Select Committee, which he moved for last year, embodied in their Report certain recommendations to which he would shortly refer. In consequence of the existence of public prosecutors in Scotland, the police of that country had to perform certain duties which did not devolve on the police in England, and which took up a great deal of time, and required considerable training for their due discharge. But it was a curious fact that no system of superannuation for the police should exist in Scotland; and the first recommendation of the Select Committee, which he trusted the Government would take into consideration, was that a plan of superannuation should be established in respect to the Scotch constabulary. The next recommendation of the Select Committee had reference to the amalgamation of different constabulary forces. A number of small boroughs maintained independent bodies of police of their own; and in some towns two or three separate police forces were kept up. The Committee recommended that some of these bodies should be amalgamated with the county police, and that in eases where there were several distinct bodies of police in towns they should be joined together. The Committee were of opinion that the payment by fees, for certain duties, should be abolished. The Committee pointed out that the duties of the Procurator Fiscals and the chief constables sometimes conflicted; and recommended that their respective duties should be better defined. Upon another point the Select Committee thought it better that the Police Committee should have a veto upon the appointment of additional constables, instead of leaving it to the chief constable. Again, the chief constable was now liable to dismissal by the Police Committee, and the Select Committee recommended that this dismissal should not be made except with the sanction of the Secretary of State. On these points he should be glad to hear the views of the Government.
THE EARL OF MORLEYsaid, that as regarded the subject of the superannuation and retiring pensions, there could be no doubt that, in order to render the police efficient, some fund of this kind should be provided; but Dr. Parr's statement, as to certain superannuation funds in this country, was enough to 705 show how much care was necessary in dealing with this question. It was under the consideration of the Government, and would receive attention and favourable consideration. With regard to the consolidation of the borough police with the county force, it certainly appeared that in several cases the existing system did not work satisfactorily. Be-fore the Select Committee there was evidence of the inconvenience arising from the maintenance by small boroughs of police of their own: but the subject was one of great delicacy, for local bodies felt a jealousy of any invasion of their rights, and interference was ill-received in such a case. By Section 61, in the Act of 1857, a permissive power was given to the boroughs to amalgamate their police with the county force. Over twenty boroughs had availed themselves of that; power; but thirty-two boroughs, sixteen of which contained a population of under 5,000, still retained their own police. The next point was the relations of the chief constable with the Procurator Fiscal. The complaint was that the Procurator Fiscal, in the discharge of his duties, had the power of giving orders to the individual members of the force, independently of the chief constable under whose order and disposition the force was. That, no doubt, might occasionally cause some confusion—particularly when the Procurator Fiscal omitted to give notice to the chief constable. This appeared however to be very rarely the ease. But, it seemed to him (the Earl of Morley) that if the department of the public prosecutor was to work satisfactorily in Scotland, it was necessary that the constables should be, to a certain extent, under the orders of the Procurator Fiscal, who, with the sheriffs, were the persons who really worked the criminal law in Scotland. Cases might occur where, in conducting an inquiry on the spot, it was impossible to communicate with the chief constable, and great delay would occur if the Procurator Fiscal were obliged to send to the chief constable before he could direct the constables to assist in collecting evidence. At the same time, the duties of the Procurator Fiscal should be performed with the least possible interference with and derangement of the police force, and notice should be given to the chief constable wherever that was possible. The present system worked 706 harmoniously in almost every part of Scotland; and, that being so, it was not the intention of the Government to make changes which would weaken the power of the Procurator Fiscal, and might impede the ends of justice. His noble Friend had also adverted to the question of police appointments. That question was under the consideration of the Government, and he trusted the noble Earl would be satisfied with that assurance, and with the explanation which he was enabled to give him on the other points which he had brought under the notice of the House.
THE EARL OF DALHOUSIEsaid, that the efficiency of the police force of Scotland was considerably impaired by the circumstance that the prospect of a superannuation allowance was not held out to them. The result was that the men looked upon the service as a temporary refuge until they could find something better to do. A well-considered system of superannuation would tend greatly to keep experienced officers in the force. He was glad, therefore, to hear that the subject was under the consideration of the Government. There were, he might add, in the counties numberless small boroughs which had little police forces of their own; and he would suggest that all boroughs having a less population than 2,000 should be compelled to amalgamate their police with the counties. If that were done, a better system of police would, he felt confident, be secured. With respect to another point, which he admitted to be one of some delicacy, he might state that he thought there was a growing desire on the part of the sheriffs and the Procurator Fiscal to acquire a greater control over the police in the counties than they ought to have. The view which he took of that question was that, while the force should be subject to the orders of the sheriff in those instances in which there was occasion to employ them in the detection of crime, they should be placed generally under the control of the Police Commissioners—for he did not suppose that the sheriffs and Procurators desired to interfere with the disposal of the force to a greater ex- tent than they found necessary for the due performance of their own duties. That was a point which he hoped the Government would take into consideration.