Lords Sitting of 13 April 1869

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—Law of Hypothec in Scotland, The Duke of Richmond added.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Civil Service Pensions* (53); Sea Birds Preservation* (54); Colonial Prisoners Removal* (55); Merchant Shipping (Colonial)* (56).
Second Reading—Naval Stores (33).
Committee—Report—Railway Companies' Meetings (44).
Withdrawn—Colonial Offenders Removal* (46).

IRELAND—RELEASED FENIAN PRISONERS.—QUESTION.
  NOTICE WITHDRAWN.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid, he had placed on the Paper a Notice of the following Question:—"To ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether the statement made by the Chief Secretary for Ireland on Thursday respecting seditious language used in public by some of the lately released Fenian prisoners is intended to convey that any special immunity for such a crime is granted by the Government to that class of prisoners?" but he now thought the subject was of too grave a character to be brought before their Lordships as a mere Question, he wished to withdraw it. Another reason for doing so was that he had been informed that the speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary for Ireland was not accurately reported in the newspapers. It was to the particular words reported, and not to the general purport of the answer of the Chief Secretary given as a whole, that he took exception.
RAILWAY COMPANIES MEETINGS BILL.
(The Lord Privy Seal.)
RAILWAY COMPANIES MEETINGS BILL.

  (NO. 44.) COMMITTEE.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put into a Committee on the said Bill read.
  THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYsaid, that this Bill repealed the 35th section of the "Regulation of Railways Act, 1868" (which relates to meetings of incorporated railway companies—commonly called Wharncliffe Meetings—and the approval of such meetings of bills and certificates for conferring additional powers on those companies) so far as relates to any Bill introduced into
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  either House of Parliament after 1st February 1869. Now, he desired to point out that the bare repeal of this section might be attended with inconvenience. Several such meetings had been held, and in some cases had refused to approve Bills promoted by Boards of Directors; but this Bill would allow such Bills to proceed notwithstanding such dissent, although the shareholders, relying on the clause, had lost the opportunity of petitioning against them. He suggested that something should be done in framing the Standing Orders that would protect the rights of shareholders in this respect.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYsaid, he would confer with the noble Lord the Chairman of Committees on the subject.
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, that he should have to propose a Sessional Order on the subject, of which notice would be given, which would secure to the shareholders their power of appearing before a Wharncliffe meeting when a Bill passed from that to the other House.
  House in Committee accordingly; Bill reported without Amendment; and to be read 3a on Thursday next.

NAVAL STORES BILL—(No. 33.)
(The Earl of Camperdown.)
NAVAL STORES BILL—(No. 33.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that the title of the Bill was hardly calculated to convey the object for which the Bill was originally framed. A series of Acts for the protection of naval stores had been passed, of which the earliest was in the reign of William III., and the latest in 1857. This Bill seemed to contradict the principle affirmed by those Acts, which provided, first a series of marks appropriated to the Admiralty, which no other trader is allowed to use, and then enacted that no private person should keep, possess, or sell any property on which these marks are imprinted. The consequence of this has been that not only had private persons been unable to sell stores on which these marks were imprinted, but the Admiralty had found themselves precluded from disposing of stores which were obsolete or partially worn out. In order to remedy that inconvenience he

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  had introduced this Bill, which would repeal all the previous Acts on the subject, and would then re-enact all the clauses which it was thought desirable to retain—omitting, of course, all those provisions which prevented the Admiralty from disposing of their old stores, when they found it for the public interest that they should do so. As it stood, the Bill also omitted the clauses retaining for the Admiralty the use of certain special marks; but on the Report he should propose to insert clauses which would still give the Admiralty the exclusive use of the "broad arrow" as their mark. The Bill was founded upon the recommendations of the Committee of the House of Commons on Dockyard Management, which sat last year, and was presided over by Mr. Seely.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)
  THE EARL OF HARDWICKEthought it a great bungle to bring in a Bill and then amend it on the Report. The better course would be to withdraw this Bill and bring in another.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNthought that, in order to save time, it would be desirable to take the course he had proposed. The Government desired to pass the Bill as speedily as possible, and to withdraw this Bill and introduce another would cause delay. The Admiralty wished to sell several old ships, and they were anxious to pass this Bill first. By the present system the Admiralty had frequently to sell ships for very much less than they had afterwards to pay for the old copper. This was the case of one ship's hull that sold for £300, when the copper had to be re-purchased for £1,665; and with regard to the Medway, she sold for £2,180, and her copper had to be repurchased by the Admiralty for £4,210. Out of twenty-seven ships sold the same thing had occurred in every instance; and therefore it seemed to him that the sooner a law which produces such results is repealed the better it would be for the public interest.
  THE DUKE OF SOMERSET, while admitting the inconvenience of the present law, thought it would be more convenient if the Amendments were proposed in Committee, instead of at a late stage.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNwas
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  quite willing to move the Amendments in Committee, and then to have the Bill re-printed with the Amendments.
  Motion agreed to; Bill road 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

  COLONIAL PRISONERS REMOVAL BILL [H.L.]
  (NO. 55.) A Bill for authorizing the removal of Offenders from one Colony to another for the purposes of Punishment: And also,

  MERCHANT SHIPPING (COLONIAL), 1869, BILL [H.L.]
  (NO. 56.) A Bill for amending the Law relating to the Coasting Trade and Merchant Shipping in British Possessions:
  Were severally presented by The Earl GRANVILLE; read 1a.
  House adjourned at half past Five o'clock, to Thursday nest, half-past Four o'clock.