Lords Sitting of 19 May 1868

MINUTES.
SELECT COMMITTEE—On Construction of the House appointed; Contagious Diseases Act, 1866, appointed.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—Sale of Poisons and Pharmacy Act Amendment * (103); Cotton Statistics * (102); Jurors' Affirmations (Scotland) * (104); Stockbrokers (Ireland) * (105).
Second Reading—Consecration of Churchyards Act 1(1867) Amendment (10): Alkali Act Amendment (114).
Committee—United Parishes (Scotland) * (84); Duchy of Cornwall Amendment * (94); Endowed Schools * (98).
Report — United Parishes (Scotland) * (84); Duchy of Cornwall Amendment * (94–107).
Third Reading — Customs and Income Tax * (100); Exchequer Bonds (£1,600,000), * and passed.
Withdrawn—Friendly Societies (43).

FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL (No. 43.)
(The Earl of Lichfield.)
FRIENDLY SOCIETIES BILL (No. 43.)

  BILL WITHDRAWN.
  Order of the Day for the House to be put in Committee on the Friendly Societies Bill, read.
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURYsaid, that before his noble Friend (the Earl of Lichfield) moved the House into Committee on the Bill, he would put it to him to consider whether, under the critical circumstances of the moment, it was not almost impossible that he could succeed in the object—undoubtedly a very important one—which he desired to accomplish. It was now the 19th of May, with the Whitsuntide holidays close upon them, the House of Commons was absorbed in the consideration of other subjects of a difficult character. He thought his noble Friend would only raise a useless discussion by proceeding with the Bill, and he therefore put it to him whether it would not be better to withdraw it? He would not however have his noble Friend think that the Government were opposed to the Bill, or did not think that the subject was worthy of consideration; on the contrary he (the Earl of Malmesbury) agreed with what fell from him (the Earl of Lichfield) the other night, when he expressed a wish for a Royal Commission to consider the whole subject, and although he was not in a position to promise that a Royal Commission should be appointed, he was inclined to regard such a proposition with every favour; because their Lordships would be able to work much more effectu-

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  ally when in possession of the Report of a Commission than under the present circumstances.
  THE EARL OF LICHFIELDsaid, that he attached great importance to the question, and he had heard no objection of any weight offered against any of the clauses of the Bill which he had brought forward. Under any other circumstances, therefore, he should have been most reluctant to withdraw it. His object, however, had been gained to a great extent— first, by having brought the subject prominently forward, and having, as he believed, attracted the attention of a large portion of the public to this important question, and also in having obtained from Her Majesty's Government an intimation that they approved of the principle of the Bill and were not unwilling that a Commission should be appointed to inquire into the whole subject. Having that prospect before him, and believing that it would be an unnecessary waste of time if he insisted on pressing the measure under the present circumstances, he would adopt the advice given him by the noble Earl and withdraw the Bill.
  EARL FORTESCUEsaid, that having presented a petition from one of the most prosperous friendly societies in the country, stating that the investigation they had made respecting other friendly societies and the experience of their own had convinced them that a general and searching inquiry into the subject was necessary; he desired to express his gratification at the prospect of a Royal Commission being issued; for he felt satisfied that the Commission would render important services to the cause of providence and self-denial, and would lead to securities for the diminution of pauperism, the advantages of which to the country could not be over-estimated.
  Bill (by Leave of the House) withdrawn.

CONSECRATION OF CHURCHYARDS ACT (1867) AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 16.)
(The Bishop of Oxford.)
CONSECRATION OF CHURCHYARDS ACT (1867) AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 16.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE BISHOP OF OXFORDsaid, that the Bill which lie now moved their Lordships to read a second time, proposed a slight alteration in the Act of last Session relating to this subject. That Act provided for the easier consecration of additions to
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  churchyards, and enabled donors of land for such additions to reserve a certain portion of it to serve in perpetuity as a burial-place for their families. It was provided that the land so reserved should not exceed fifty square yards, or one-sixth of the whole land given. Now the legal authorities construed the clause as though the words "fifty square yards" governed the words "one-sixth," and to mean that not more than fifty yards could be reserved under any gift. That, however, was not the intention of those who framed the clause; and this Bill proposed to permit donors to reserve land to any extent, provided it did not exceed a certain proportion of the whole. That proportion, as he had stated, was one-sixth under last year's Act; but, thinking some of their Lordships might deem it inadvisable to allow so largo a proportion as that to be reserved, he proposed to fix it in this Bill at one-tenth. At the same time he attached no great importance to this second point, and if one-sixth was thought better than one-tenth, he would not press his opinion either way. It had recently been thought well to render churchyards attractive by planting them, and he desired to give encouragement to donations of land for the purpose of enlarging them, by enabling the donors to reserve a portion as burial-places for themselves and their families.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a." —(The Lord Bishop of Oxford.)
  LORD REDESDALEsaid, it would be as well to guard against making the reserved ground too large, because a donor's successors might neglect to keep it in order, and thus an eyesore would be produced in the neighbourhood of the church instead of an ornament.
  THE BISHOP OF CARLISLEsuggested that the provisions of the Act of last year should be extended to cemeteries. He had been recently reminded of the necessity of this by a case in his own diocese. The Burial Board of Kendal had made an addition to their beautiful cemetery; but when the case came to be inquired into it was found that the whole of the cumbrous legal formalities attending the consecration of a burial-ground had to be gone through before the addition could be used. For, on carefully perusing that Bill of last Session, which it was now proposed to amend, it was found that by no possibility could it be construed as applying to cemeteries. Indeed, they would seem to have been

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  studiously and purposely excluded from its benefits.
  THE BISHOP OF OXFORDsaid, that the object of the Act of last year was to enable the consecrations of burial-grounds in small and poor parishes to be made without the ordinary fees being paid to the officers of the diocese. It was exceedingly important that men of high character should fill that office, and it would be impossible to induce them to discharge the duties attendant upon it unless they were to receive some; remuneration for their services. The system proposed to be introduced by the Act might answer very well in poor parishes; but in the case of large and wealthy parishes the officers should still receive their fees.
  Motion agreed to: Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday next.

ALKALI ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.
(The Duke of Richmond.)
ALKALI ACT CONTINUANCE BILL.

  (NO. 114.) SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE DUKE OF RICHMOND, in moving that the Bill be now read a second time, said, its object was to continue the Act for suppressing the emission of alkaline vapours from chemical works, passed five years ago, on the recommendation of a Committee which was presided over by the noble Earl (the Earl of Derby). The Act had since been in operation to the great benefit of the public, without having inflicted any damage or inconvenience to the proprietors of works of that nature.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a" —The Duke of Richmond.
  THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, the Act had not only conferred a direct benefit on the neighbourhood in which it had been put in operation; but it had proved indirectly beneficial to the manufacturers themselves; for, since it became law, processes had been discovered by which the noxious fumes, formerly evolved from those works, had been utilized. The same noxious gases were thrown off from other works—copper smelting works, for instance. He thought it a pity that a beneficial Act should be confined to chemical works only; and hoped that a Bill would be brought in extending the Act to other manufactories.
  THE DUKE OF RICHMONDsaid, that
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  the question of applying the provisions of this Bill to copper smelting was at present: under the consideration of the Government.
  LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEYthought that the extension would be advisable; but at the same time nothing should be done until it had been ascertained that processes similar to those which had been found beneficial as applied to chemical works were equally applicable to other works.
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYpointed out that under the guise of a Continuance Bill, it really proposed to make the Alkali Act perpetual. He had himself, however, no objection to that proposition, and would rather suggest that it should be made a perpetual Act.
  THE DUKE OF RICHMONDsaid, that perhaps some clauses might have been framed which would have effected the object of his noble Friends; but the Government was not in possession of sufficient information to enable them to deal with the matter in a satisfactory manner. He would propose in Committee to strike out the word '' Continuance."
  Motion agreed to.
  Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Friday next.

CONSTRUCTION OF THE HOUSE,
  SELECT COMMITTEE

    APPOINTED AND NOMINATED,
    THE EARL OF CARNARVON, in moving the re-appointment of the Committee of last Session, said, that he proposed to make only one alteration in the constitution of the Committee—to substitute the name of the Marquess of Salisbury for that of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, whose engagements rendered it impossible for him to give the necessary attention to the subject. He believed that it would only be necessary to hold a few more sittings, and that the Committee might shortly be in a position to make their Report.
    Moved, That the Select Committee appointed on 28th June 1867, to consider whether any and what Arrangements can be made to remedy the present detective Construction of the House in reference to Hearing, be re-appointed.—(The Earl of Carnarvon.)
    Motion agreed to.
    The Lords following were named of the Committee; the Committee to appoint their own Chairman:—

    M. Salisbury

    E. Kimberley

    E. Carnarvon

    V. Eversley

    E. Romney

    L. Redesdale

    E. De Grey

    L. Somerhill.

    Ordered, That the Evidence taken before the said Committee of last Session be laid upon the Table of the House, in order that the same may be referred to the Select Committee on the Construction of the House of the present Session: The said Evidence was accordingly laid on the Table, and referred to the said Committee.

    CONTAGIOUS DISEASES ACI, 1866.
    Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to consider the Contagious Diseases Act, 1866: Motion agreed to: The Lords following were named of the Committee; the Committee to meet on Friday next, at Half past Four o'Clock, and to appoint their own Chairman.—(The Viscount Lifford:)—

    D. Somerset

    V. Templetown

    D. Cleveland

    L. Silchester

    E. Devon

    L. Clandeboye

    E. De Grey

    L. Penrhyn.

    V. Lifford

    SALE OF POISONS AND PHARMACY ACT AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
    A Bill to regulate the Sale of Poisons, and alter and amend the Pharmacy Act, 1852—Was presented by The Earl GKANVILLE; read 1a. (No. 103.)
    House adjourned at Six o'clock, to Friday next, half past Ten o'clock.