Lords Sitting of 17 July 1868

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—General Police and Improvement (Scotland) Act Amendment * (267); Sir Robert Napier's Annuity * (265); Titles to Land Consolidation (Scotland) * (268); Poor Law Board Provisional Order Confirmation * (266); Marriages Validity (Blakedown) * (271).
Second Reading—Tain Provisional Order Confirmation * (242); Land Drainage Provisional Order Confirmation * (241); Larceny and Embezzlement (245); New Zealand Assembly's Powers * (247); Railway Companies (Ireland) Advances * (205); Sanitary Act (1866) Amendment * (252); Vaccination (Ireland) * (254); Militia Pay. *
Committee—Burials (Ireland) (212–269); Bankruptcy Act Amendment (208–270); Contagious Diseases Act (1866) Amendment * (229); Portpatrick and Belfast and County Down Railway Companies * (238).
Report—Ecclesiastical Commissioners * (259); Contagious Diseases Act (1866) Amendment * (229); Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) Accounts Audit * (237); Clerks of the Peace, &c. (Ireland) * (261); Court of Justiciary (Scotland) * (232); Ecclesiastical Buildings and Glebes (Scotland) * (233); Portpatrick and Belfast and County Down Railway Companies * (238).
Third Reading—Revenue Officers Disabilities Removal * (214); Local Government Supplemental (No. 6) * (175); West Indies * (249); Entail Amendment (Scotland) * (250); Assignees of Marine Policies * (260); Poor Law and Medical Inspectors (Ireland) * (222); Petit Juries (Ireland) * (231); Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Court * (123); District Church Tithes Act Amendment * (251); Indorsing of Warrants * (240), and passed.

LONDON, BRIGHTON, AND SOUTH COAST RAILWAY BILL.—OBSERVATIONS.
LORD REDESDALEsaid, that this Bill had come back from the House of Commons with a clause restored which their Lordships had struck out, and which empowered the company to divide their ordinary paid-up share capital in a manner which he thought was open to the strongest possible objection. If their Lordships conceded that principle, and particularly for the reason given in the other House—namely, that companies had a right to regulate their own capital in the way they deemed most convenient, without the interference of Parliament, he believed it would lead to the greatest possible evil. He therefore desired to call their Lordships' attention to the subject, and he begged to give Notice that he would on Tuesday next move that their Lordships should insist on their Amendment. There was a canvass generally in these cases

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and he hoped their Lordships would keep their minds free until the subject came on for discussion.

CORONATION OATH.

  ADDRESS FOR A PAPER.
  LORD REDESDALE: In moving for a Copy of the Coronation Oath, your Lordships will be aware that I do so in reference to the question relating to the Irish Church, forced upon our consideration by the action of the other House of Parliament. Hitherto, it appears to me that the political aspect of that question has been almost exclusively discussed, and I am very anxious that the far more important consideration of it in its religious aspect shall not be overlooked. The country must be appealed to before it is settled, and as every man may act in relation to it, so will he have to account. I have on a former occasion expressed my opinion to your Lordships, that to take away property which has been devoted for centuries to the service of what we believe to be the true Catholic Church is sacrilege, and therefore sinful. The only answer I have received came from a noble Duke (the Duke of Argyll), who objected to my doctrine, "because money given to the Church was not necessarily given to God." I admit this to a certain extent. Gifts to the Church may be perverted, and cease to be devoted to the service of God. But when the noble Duke went on to say that—
  "Churches are to be judged like other institutions,—that if they produce good-will and peace among men, the money given to them may indeed be held to be given to the service of God; but if, in the exercise of our reason we judge that they are producing evil effects, we are justified in holding that the money is not spent in the service of God:"
  as in this case the "evil effects produced" are that some men are offended, I must ask the noble Duke where he learnt that doctrine in regard to the propagation of true religion? Does he hold that the truth will always be agreeable to all men; and that it is not to be preached if it offends anyone? Our Lord Himself said, when He first sent forth His Apostles, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." But this doctrine is not agreeable to the taste of the present day. Men prefer the teaching of false prophets if their teaching is pleasing, and to see peace when there is no peace. The Irish
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  Church never was so efficient as at present, and in that efficiency she is condemned to serve a political purpose. Her property is to be confiscated and the wrong done to her excused because thereby a majority of the people of Ireland will be gratified. To injure one person to please another is sinful, and such policy can never prosper or bring peace to a nation. Oh, that every man would pray diligently for guidance in this matter before he committed himself to a course which he may hereafter bitterly regret ! I assert boldly that in dealing with the temporalities of the Church as property devoted to the service of God, it is our bounden duty to consider exclusively what will be pleasing to God, and to disregard altogether the wishes or prejudices of this or that body of men. The Resolutions on the subject of the Irish Church, lately carried in "another place," were taken up hastily to secure a particular purpose. It was found, to the disappointment of many, that the Government, having succeeded in passing the English Reform Bill last year, were likely to be equally successful with the Scottish and Irish Bills in the present Session. They were pursuing their course with a continuance of support which insured the result now obtained; and as regards the charge brought by a noble Earl (Earl Russell) against them, that they were holding Office in violation of constitutional principles, without possessing the confidence of the House of Commons, I believe that if the Division Lists on those important measures are examined, it will be found that the Leader of the Opposition has been more frequently in a minority than the Leader of the Government; and so far from the fact being that the Government did not possess the confidence of the House of Commons, I believe that they enjoyed it to a greater extent than any other party there on the questions really at issue before Parliament, whether as to general policy, domestic and foreign, or as to legislative measures actually under consideration. Under these circumstances, so distressing to the Leaders of the Opposition, who had by their mismanagement broken up their party, and knew that they could not carry a Vote of Want of Confidence if they proposed one, a question was to be sought out for making a hostile movement against the Government, on which all the sections of the Liberal party might be got to vote together, in the hope of turning out the Go-

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  vernment before they could bring the Session to a successful conclusion. It was necessary that what was to be proposed should be grateful to Cardinal Cullen and to the Liberation Society, in order that all the extreme men might be secured; and for these purposes it was unfortunately determined to attack the Irish Church. Cardinal Cullen was pleased with Resolutions for her disestablishment and disendowment, because they were a grievous injury to Protestantism; and the Liberation Society rejoiced because they inflicted a heavy blow against the principle of all Establishments. And here I wish to say a word or two upon the principles of the Liberation Society, because in the heats engendered by the late discussions not a few have been led partially to accept their doctrine, and to plead in excuse for agreeing to disestablish the Church in Ireland, that thereby its efficiency will be increased. As regards Establishments and Endowments, I find that in the only case in which the polity of a nation was determined by direct order from the Almighty—namely, for the Jews, their Church was both established and endowed. Perhaps the Liberation Society consider that God made a mistake in those ordinances. With more veneration I bow to that decision; and where I find a Church, which I believe to be true, established and endowed, I consider myself bound to support it in the enjoyment of those privileges as being things divinely ordered. So much for the ultra-Protestant section of the alliance. On the Roman Catholic side I say that the agitation on the subject of the Irish Church is mainly an ecclesiastical, not a popular movement, and has been raised within a very few years. None existed at the time of the Emancipation, but, on the contrary, the strongest assurances were then given that no idea of overthrowing the Protestant Establishment was entertained by Roman Catholics. In I the Oath taken by them under that Act, each Member thus engaged himself—
  "I do hereby disclaim, disavow, and solemnly abjure any intention to subvert the present Church Establishment as settled by law within this realm; and I do solemnly swear that I will never exercise any privilege to which I am or may become entitled, to disturb or weaken the Protestant Religion or Protestant Government in the United Kingdom."
  This Oath and others have been given up; but their removal, instead of leading to the peace and good-will which was to have
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  been the promised result, has given licence to Roman Catholics to attack the Established Church, of which they have too readily availed themselves, and affords no encouragement for further concessions. Whatever has at any time been given to them has only been used as a stepping-stone to further demands. I cannot part from the consideration of this question, so vitally affecting the Church Establishment of these kingdoms, without calling attention to the manner in which this nation has been evidently blessed and made great since the Reformation. Before that event, we were a respectable European power, but gave no promise of our subsequent advance and influence. Since the foundation of our colonial Empire was first laid in the time of Elizabeth, we have been continually extending our name, our language, and our religion over a very large portion of the globe. To us the heathen have been given for an inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for our possession. To us, more than to any other European nation, it has been given in our Eastern Empire to fulfil the ancient prophecy, that Japhet shall dwell in the gates of Shem. We have not been without a warning. Notwithstanding the blessings conferred upon his kingdom and people, the Sovereign on one occasion relapsed to Popery. He was immediately judged and found wanting, and was removed from his Throne, to which another family was called, now represented by Her Majesty. The danger which now appears to threaten us comes, not from the Sovereign, but from a political party, and it behoves the people of these realms to reflect that if they fail to maintain the Protestant cause as heretofore, the result may be that the power and position now enjoyed by this country may be taken from it, in like manner as the Crown was taken from the Stuarts. Under these circumstances, and with these reflections before me, I desire to move for a Copy of the Coronation Oath. On a recent occasion, the noble Earl opposite (Earl Granville), alluding to some remarks I had made in a former speech on this subject in relation to the personal responsibility of the Sovereign, avoided the discussion of them, saying in his most good-humoured manner—
  "If I am asked to say what I think of certain portions of that speech, I must, with all respect to your Lordships and my noble Friend, acknowledge that I had rather do no such thing."
  And then he laid out for a laugh, by quot-

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  ing some doggrel lines about "a curse, for which nobody seemed one penny the worse," which, as I had not said anything about a curse, were not appropriate; but taken together with what preceded, I accept the whole gratefully as an acknowledgment that he had no satisfactory reply to make to my argument which he thus evaded. Try it how you please, can anything exceed the solemnity of that Oath? It is not the voluntary act of the Sovereign, to which she might afterwards regret that she had engaged herself, and repent the indiscretion which led her to take it. It is imposed upon her by the law of the country, not by her own will. If, indeed, Parliament, before dealing with the Irish Church, were to repeal that Oath, and Her Majesty felt herself justified in assenting to that repeal—for, remember, the Sovereign has an independent legislative power equal to that of either House of Parliament, so far as assent is concerned, and is responsible for the exercise of it—a question might arise whether such a repeal released her from the obligation; but so long as that Oath remains in the statute book, the obligation exists. I have seen in The Times a letter from a gentleman who subscribed himself "Historicus," giving a number of reasons why it was not an Oath at all, and holding that it was a matter of indifference how it was observed. His argument appeared summed up in the following sentence:—
  "To contend that the obligation of such a solemnity as the Coronation Oath is due not to the nation but to the Deity, is a position of which the folly can only be equalled by its profanity."
  What sense can the mind which conceived such a sentiment have of the place, the manner, and the terms in which that solemnity—for so he has the grace to call it—was performed? If, indeed, the engagement had been entered into by the Sovereign in this Chamber, with the Lords in their places and the Commons at the Bar, and if, laying her hand on the statute book, she had said, What I have here promised I will keep, "so help me Great Britain and Ireland," it would have been indeed due only to the nation. But when we consider that the Oath was taken in the Temple of God, that the Sovereign in taking it placed her hand on the holy Gospels, and, in the words "so help me God," invoked the Divine assistance in performing and keeping what she had promised, I think it impossible to deny that the obligation was not to the nation
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  only, but to God. It has been the constitutional doctrine from the earliest times that the Sovereign of this country is subject to none but to God and the law. Duty to the law compelled the Queen to take that Oath, and to whatever her conscience tells her that it engages her, she is bound by her duty to God.
  Moved, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty for a Copy of the Oath taken by Her Majesty at Her Coronation: Agreed to.—(The Lord Redesdale.)

  ARMY—ORGANIZATION OF THE RESERVED FORCES.—QUESTION.
  LORD TRURO, in rising to ask Her Majesty's Government a Question, respecting the Organization of the Reserved Forces, said, there had of late years been a determination, in view of the improved equipment of Continental armies, to increase our forces to any extent which might appear desirable, so as to place the country in a condition to meet any emergency. Successive Governments had considered the subject, and as far back as the time of the late Sir George C. Lewis a scheme was drawn up with a view of organizing a Reserve Force, while the present Administration had wisely set about the organization of such a Reserve. Its numbers were, however, at present only 4,000; it was in a most unhappy condition with regard to officers, and there was very little chance of its numbers being speedily recruited. The Artillery was likewise in a most unfavourable condition, there being only 180 guns available for the support of the Regular and Volunteer; Forces, the Militia and Pensioners, amounting in all to 300,000 men. He thought public men had not as yet taken a proper view of the Volunteer Force, which ought in his opinion to be regarded as the great defence Army of the country. If, as some of our statesmen believe, the next war should be "a word and a blow," we could not expect two months' notice; and what would be our position? We should have 40,000 or 50,000 men of the Regular Army, 150,000 Militia, 180 guns of the Artillery, the Yeomanry, Pensioners, and Volunteers. In case of an invasion it might be necessary to divide the Regular Army into two or three bodies, and, excellent as the Militia were, he did not believe they would be comparable to the Volunteers. He believed the result of any alarm would be that we

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  should have our Regular Army increased to 300,000, our Militia to 300,000, and our Volunteers to at least 1,000,000. Now, what was the amount of Artillery with which we should be able to support that force? He knew there was an impression at the Horse Guards that the Volunteers were not a body whom it would be desirable to use as field artillery. Now, without attempting to make too much of the Volunteer Force, he could not help urging the great expediency of seeing whether there was not some mode by which the Volunteers might be instructed in artillery at a comparatively small cost, but in such a manner and with such a sufficient supply of guns as would render them available, in case of need, to give support to the body of men to whom he had alluded. He did not think it desirable to describe what the condition of this country was at the time of the Crimean War; but it was generally known that the number of guns was so inconsiderable as to do no credit to the mode in which the public Departments had been carried on. He would, therefore, venture to press on the Government the extreme necessity of considering whether it might not be desirable to put the Volunteer Force—our national defence Army—though at present they might not be looked upon with, he was going to say, a degree of pride—in such a condition that they might be available, no matter what occasion for their services might arise. He, for one, could not say that he looked back with satisfaction on the administration of the War Department under the present Government. Circulars had been issued by the Department, which showed a want of acquaintance with the present state of things that one would not have expected. For instance, a Circular had been issued to Lords Lieutenant in which unity of action between Volunteers and Militia was recommended; but which showed that the War Department was not aware that in time of war the Volunteers and Militia would come under the control of the Commander-in-Chief. Then another Circular was issued, informing the Volunteers that they were to be brought in aid of the civil power. No greater error was ever committed, nor one which would more seriously interfere with the efficiency and popularity of the Volunteer system. The Circular was afterwards withdrawn and was judiciously emasculated; but was re-issued in a form which
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  he regarded as absolutely nil. He was aware that their Lordships were always averse from any question of a personal character, and he could assure them that he would be the last person indiscreetly to trench upon the rule which was so rigidly maintained. But the question which he now wished to bring forward was not in one sense of a personal character, and though it related to an individual, it was to an individual who had long been engaged in the public service. He referred to Colonel Erskine. Colonel Erskine had served in the Military Train, and on Colonel M'Murdoch being appointed to a higher command he succeeded that officer as Inspector General of Volunteers. While holding that office he had 160,000 Volunteers under his command, and in the discharge of his duties was lauded by almost every Volunteer in the service. Colonel Erskine had performed the duties of Inspector, he believed, to the satisfaction of every Minister of War under whom he served. It was with deep regret that he read that Colonel Erskine had been removed from his position in the War Office, not to a higher position, or one which would have been a due acknowledgment of his valuable services; but, on the contrary, he was, so to speak, put back to the Military Train, from which he had been promoted, and that on a salary less by £400 a year. The pay of military men was not so considerable that a loss of £400 a year would be of no moment to Colonel Erskine. He would venture to ask the noble Earl (the Earl of Longford) who was Colonel Erskine's immediate superior, whether he was cognizant of the removal of Colonel Erskine before it occurred? and he hoped that was a question which the noble Earl would answer. It might be said that Colonel Erskine would have held his situation only two years longer; but the reply to that was that there was a loss to Colonel Erskine of £800 solid money by his removal. Did their Lordships conceive that a Minister of State should have been so indifferent to the interests of his subordinates as to state in his place in Parliament that the position to which Colonel Erskine was removed was an inferior one, and that the salary was lower? He was stating what had appeared in print, and what the Minister was reported to have said in Parliament, and he ventured to say that a more off-hand mode of dealing with a valuable subordinate could not be. And let it be

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  remembered that Colonel Erskine was a man who by the Volunteers and the public was acknowledged to have discharged his duty in a faultless manner; and not only had he discharged it faithfully and zealously, but in a manner the most modest and becoming, while he had never made any remonstrance against the treatment which he had received. He begged to ask Her Majesty's Government, Whether any Scheme has yet been prepared for the Organization of the Reserved Forces?
  THE MARQUESS OF EXETERsaid, he should have been well satisfied to leave the question of the organization of our Reserved Forces in the hands of the Secretary for War, and of his noble Relative (the Earl of Longford), and he should not have addressed their Lordships but for an observation which had fallen from the noble Lord who had just sat down. While he (the Marquess of Exeter) had every respect for the Volunteers, he must take exception to certain expressions which the noble Lord had used with regard to the Militia. He understood the noble Lord to say that the Volunteers must be regarded as the national Reserve of this country, and that the Militia were not comparable to the Volunteer Force. No doubt the noble Lord intended to say that in point of numbers they were not comparable.
  LORD TRURO: I meant to say that, in consequence of the Militia being out for drill only three weeks during the year and the Volunteers being engaged in shooting and drilling every day of the year—some part of the Volunteers are shooting every day—at all events, they are out on drill—the Militia could not be so good a force as the Volunteers.
  THE MARQUESS OF EXETERsaid, that the Militia had always been regarded as the constitutional Reserve of the country, from which our regular troops were in times of emergency to be recruited. During the Crimean War the Militia gave nearly 40,000 men to the regiments of the Line, besides relieving the Regular Forces by performing garrison duty within the United Kingdom, and sending out twelve regiments to garrison the Mediterranean stations, thus enabling the Line regiments at Gibraltar, Malta, and the Ionian Islands to reinforce our army in the Crimea at a most critical time. The constitution of the Volunteer Force would not enable them to perform such duty—because if the Volunteers were taken away
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  from their homes to perform garrison duty the trade of the country would suffer. It had often been complained that the Militia was badly officered not only as regarded numbers, but efficiency. Now, as to the alleged non-efficiency of Militia officers, he did not agree with the complaints which were so often urged; for, after long experience, he was of opinion that, considering the short time they were out for training and the few opportunities they had for learning their duties properly, Militia officers as a body did their work very fairly. They would perform it still better if the Government would return to the plan pursued in 1852. At that time Militia officers were allowed to attach themselves to regiments of the Line for an unlimited time. He believed that many of them would be glad to take that opportunity of learning their duty again, and in that case would soon become nearly as efficient as officers of the Line. At present they could only join a Line regiment for a month, and this time was not long enough for them to learn their drill properly. Another point deserving of consideration was whether the Government should not pay the travelling expenses of Militia officers to and from the county town while the regiment was in training. Again, the billeting system required amendment. An enormous amount of billeting money was now spent when the Militia were out for training; and the Government should consider whether it would not be much cheaper to provide barracks or proper accommodation in the county towns, rather than continue a system which was not only costly, but led to great irregularities. It might be worth while to consider also whether the Contagious Diseases Prevention Act might not be applied with advantage in some way in the county towns during the time the Militia were in training. He suggested, too, that the Militia should be formed into divisions; for, in case of war, it would be of the greatest advantage if, instead of the present divided authority, the officer having the military command of the district were able to order out his division of Militia along with his division of his Line.
  VISCOUNT HARDINGEsaid, the noble Lord who had introduced this subject had referred to the resignation of Colonel Erskine, and he (Viscount Hardinge) must agree that this was an event which every Volunteer regretted. With regard to the

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  organization of the Reserve Force, no doubt the question was an important one; but, considering how short a time General Lindsay, who commanded the Force, had held that appointment, it was only fair to that officer to withold any remarks until a sufficient time had elapsed to give the new scheme a fair trial. The whole question of the reorganization of our home defences was considered in 1858 by a Committee of General Officers, who recommended the brigading of the Militia with the Regular Forces. This would be a step in the right direction, and was still more necessary now than it was then, when the large force of 170,000 Volunteers had been added to our home defences. In respect to transport, commissariat, and other arrangements the recommendations made were of a valuable character. He did not concur with the noble Lord (Lord Truro) in putting the Volunteers before the Militia; for, although he belonged to the Volunteers, he believed the Militia was the back-bone of our defensive organization. While the Volunteer had twelve days' drill, the Militiaman had twenty-eight, and was liable to be drilled fifty-six days; and he would urge upon the Government the importance of giving facilities to the Militia to be brigaded with the Line. The experiment had been tried at Aldershot this year, and had proved very successful. Seven regiments of Militia had been encamped with the Regulars, and he was told on high authority that nothing could be better than their conduct on parade. He should like to see this system extended, and other Militia regiments sent to Aldershot, Shorncliffe, and Colchester, where, he believed, contact with the Line would greatly increase their efficiency, while the encampment would save them from contracting the prejudicial habits that were acquired when they were thrown together in the towns. The same plan might to be adopted with regard to the Volunteers. Moreover, he thought that if the Volunteers were brigaded with the Militia during the period the latter were out training, a great improvement might be made in their efficiency. He did not believe it was possible in time of peace to maintain a Staff sufficient for a Reserve Force of 300,000 men, and as to a Volunteer Staff, which some put forward so much, he deemed it a chimera, for Volunteer officers had not time to qualify themselves for the duties of Staff officers. It would be quite premature yet to give any opinion with regard
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  to the success of the Army Reserve, but he would remind the noble Lord the Under Secretary of State that a great number of men had been lost this year because the Circular was issued so late. He knew that this was the case in his own county; and he hoped the War Office had so far improved that a repetition of this mistake could not occur. He wished to draw special attention to the deficiency in the number of Militia officers, which at present amounted to 1,400; and he could not help thinking it was an excellent suggestion that their expenses on joining their regiments should be paid, and that that step would do much towards supplying the deficiency. He would also offer another suggestion, which was that after they had served ten years they should be allowed to take their rank and to wear uniform, which would be a privilege and a boon that they would appreciate.
  LORD LYTTELTONdesired to confirm what had been said as to the good conduct of the Militia and the difficulty of finding officers. As reference had been made to Colonel Erskine, he might say he was perfectly certain that anything which could be done by the Government to show their sense of the services of Colonel Erskine and of his predecessor, Colonel M'Murdo, would be most acceptable to the whole body of Volunteers.
  THE EARL OF LONGFORD, in reply to the Question of the noble Lord (Lord Truro), had to state that there was no scheme for the organization of the Reserve Forces ready to be promulgated, nor had he been able to find the scheme to which allusion had been made, and which was supposed to have been drawn up at the time Sir George C. Lewis was at the War Office. Two Acts were passed late last Session the object of which was to increase the efficiency of the Reserve Forces, and these Acts were coming slowly into operation. An important step towards the organization of the Reserved Forces had been taken by placing the Militia and Volunteer Forces under the direction of one competent commander who was also an Assistant Inspector of the district. Although it was true the deficiency of Militia officers was to be lamented, yet he must say that those we had were quite as efficient as they could be expected to be. There was no better public servant than Colonel M'Murdo, and the Volunteer service could not have been better inspected than they were by Colonel Erskine; but

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  it was obviously an advantage that these different forces should be brought under uniform direction and placed under one commander, and it was to be hoped that their organization would now be developed. Materials were in the hands of the Inspector General, who, with the Militia authorities, would proceed to make regulations on the subject, and several officers had devoted much valuable time to the elaboration of plans for bringing together bodies of troops with their appendages. He hardly wished to enter into the delicate question involved in a comparison of the Volunteers with the Militia, for the Government accepted the services of both, and believed that each was able to play a competent part in the defence of the country. He had hoped the last had been heard of the unfortunate Circular; but it was not the business of the War Office to make the law on the subject. With regard to the resignation of Colonel Erskine, no good purpose was to be served by reviving a matter which was fully discussed four months ago, when the Secretary of State bore the highest testimony to the value of his services. It was thought that an excellent opportunity had arisen for making certain desirable arrangements with regard to the Reserve Forces, and while they were being considered the intelligence was communicated irregularly and informally to Colonel Erskine by a private friend. He had only to state, in conclusion, that the Government fully recognized the importance of proceeding in the direction of complete organization.
  EARL DE GREY AND RIPONsaid, that in his opinion the Militia and the Volunteers were highly creditable to the country, and that there was ample room for both of them. We might fairly expect good service from them at any period of national difficulty that might arise. He was mainly induced to offer a few remarks to the House by a portion of the speech of his noble Friend (Lord Truro) with reference to the services of Colonel Erskine. He had been at the War Office during almost the whole of the time that Colonel Erskine served in that Department, first as Deputy Inspector of Volunteers, and subsequently on his appointment as Inspector General of Volunteers. He felt that he should fail in his duty to Colonel Erskine if he did not bear testimony in the strongest manner to the valuable services of that officer. Colonel Erskine was a man of untiring zeal, of unusually good
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  sense, and of high administrative talent. Now he did not for a moment complain that the Secretary of State for War had deemed it necessary to amalgamate certain offices, and to bring the Reserved Forces into closer union with one another. Indeed, a similar scheme had been previously proposed; but its principal object was to effect economy, whereas the result of carrying out the plan now proposed by the Secretary of State would have the result of somewhat increasing the cost of the Department. But although it was perfectly right that the Secretary of State should introduce into his Department such changes as he might think requisite, yet when an officer had discharged his duties with zeal and ability every possible consideration should be had for the feelings of that officer. From what he had heard that evening, however, he was led to believe that the feelings of Colonel Erskine had not been taken into consideration. He understood that Colonel Erskine did not learn from the Secretary of State, but from a private friend, that it was intended to remove him from the post of Inspector General of Volunteers. Now, if that were really so, he was bound to express his opinion that the Secretary of State had been wanting in courtesy to Colonel Erskine, who had not received such treatment as an officer occupying so high a position had a right to expect. As to the general question, the noble Earl (the Earl of Longford) had truly said that the Act of last year had not been long enough in operation to enable us to judge of its probable results; but he regretted that the regulations for carrying it into effect were not published at an earlier period. The result of that, if he were not mistaken, was to delay for a whole year the bringing of that Act into operation. Such a result was greatly to be regretted. He confessed he had always entertained some doubts as to the effect of the measure; but as Her Majesty's Government had adopted it, he hoped they would exert their influence in order to make it work beneficially.
  LORD OVERSTONEsaid, he thought this was not an unfit opportunity for drawing their Lordships' attention to the fact that when the Volunteer Force was first organized it was distinctly understood that it was not to be in any way a substitute for the regular forces of the country. It was simply intended as a demonstration of moral force which should be felt through-

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  out the whole world, and the worst condemnation that could be pronounced upon it was that it should to any extent—even to the extent of 5,000 men—be a means of reducing the Regular Army. This was a matter of great importance, on which the attention of their Lordships should be carefully fixed. Then the country ought clearly to understand in what manner and to what extent the defence of this country could be efficiently sustained by any military force. This island was small in extent, its dense population were actively engaged in commercial and industrial pursuits, and all its business was carried on by the operation of a vast system of credit, delicate to the last degree, which would be most ruinously affected by the landing upon our shores of an army—he would not say an army which required 200,000 or 300,000 men to repel it—but of an army of even 20,000 or 30,000 men. The mere landing of such a force would act like a universal earthquake, spreading destruction throughout the land, and our power, our prosperity, our happiness, our greatness—everything which made us proud of the name of Englishmen—would be lost. It was upon the waters surrounding this island that our safety must always depend, and he therefore trusted that in the midst of schemes of army organization the attention of the Government and of the country would be always directed to the security of the seas which separated us from the great military Monarchies of the Continent.

THE BLOCKADE OF MAZATLAN.

  QUESTION.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGHinquired, If it be true that a Frigate is blockading the Port of Mazatlan; and, if so, whether such Blockade has been duly authorized by Her Majesty in Council and published in the Gazette? He must first, however, state, that since he had placed his Notice on the Paper, further particulars respecting the alleged blockade had been published in the newspapers. The blockading of a port was a very important operation, and ought to be carried out in a very cautious manner. He might remark that, some years ago, in consequence of a number of English sailors having been mortally injured, the port of Jeddah had been blockaded, and in consequence great difficulties and complications had arisen between the Turkish Government and that of Her Majesty.
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  If the account of what had occurred at Mazatlan were accurate, the British commander appeared to have behaved in an outrageous manner, and to have proved himself unfit to remain in Her Majesty's service. The details were thus narrated in the Pall Mall Gazette of last evening—
  "The American papers to hand this morning publish the following, dated San Francisco, July 2:—' Advices from Mazatlan to the 22nd of June report that a serious difficulty had occurred between Commander Bridge, of the English war steamer Chanticleer, and the Mexican authorities at that place. The Chanticleer, it is said, was in a perilous position off the coast, and fired signal guns for assistance. A pilot went out and released the ship from her position of danger, but the commander of the steamer refused to pay the pilot for his services, and proceeded to Mazatlan. The collector of the port at Mazatlan was notified that one of the officers of the British war steamer was engaged in conveying specie on board to avoid the export duty, and caused his arrest. The officer's person was searched and a quantity of gold found upon him. The captain of the Chanticleer came ashore, and in a very excited manner declared that his vessel and himself had been insulted by the indgnity offered to his subordinates. High words followed, which culminated in the arrest and search of the person of the British commander by order of the collector, who asserted his suspicion that the commander also was implicated in smuggling specie on board of his vessel. Captain Bridge then went on board of the Chanticleer and notified the inhabitants of Mazatlan that he was about to bombard the city for the insult offered to the English flag. The captain's proclamation of hostility caused great excitement, and numerous communications in writing passed between Captain Bridge, General Corona, and the civil authorities. The United States' Consul, Mr. Session, acting as mediator, ultimately induced the British commander to modify his proclamation so as to place the port of Mazatlan under blockade so far as Mexican vessels were concerned, until he could receive orders from the British Admiral commanding on the station. American and other foreign vessels would not be interfered with. It is asserted that the action of General Corona and the Mexican authorities is approved by the foreign residents generally. The United States' war steamer Suwanee had loft Acapulco for Mazatlan, to protect the American interest in that place. The United States' steamer Resaca was at La Paz on June 21. Additional advices from Mexico state that Commander Bridge at first demanded that the officer who searched the person of his subordinate and seized the money should be sent on board the Chanticleer, to be dealt with as the commander saw fit. General Corona replied that sooner than submit to such an outrage, he would allow the city to be bombarded, and telling him, in indignant language, that if he had a reclamation to make, he should make it in the manner customary with civilized nations and through the proper channel.' "
  He would not take up any more of their Lordships' time, but would simply ask whether the Government had received any authentic information on that matter?
  THE EARL OF MALMESBURY: In reply to the Question of my noble Friend, I have to state that Her Majesty's Government have not received any of those details which he seems to have obtained through the American newspapers. Your Lordships will judge for yourselves—for I cannot pronounce any opinion on the subject—whether those details are likely to be authentic or not. All that Her Majesty's Government have heard is that on the 4th of July the Admiralty learnt by a telegram that, an outrage having been committed on some British seamen or British subjects—I know not exactly which—Captain Bridge, of the Chanticleer, took upon himself to stop the entrance to the port of Mazatlan. I quite agree with my noble Friend in stating that an officer has no right on his own responsibility to commit such an act as that. At the same time, there are circumstances which justify breaches of the law, as your Lordships know. But, not being acquainted with those circumstances, no opinion can be pronounced on that point. On the 10th of this month the Admiralty also received a telegraphic despatch from Vice Admiral Hastings, saying that he had sent orders to Captain Bridge to raise the blockade. That is all that we have heard on the subject; and no other authentic intelligence has reached us. I cannot help here noticing what was said by my noble Friend with respect to a very grave event which occurred some years ago at Jeddah. He seemed to think very lightly of that outrage, and talked of some sailors being stopped, or something of that sort. [The Earl of DENBIGH: I said "mortally injured."] Not only were they mortally injured, but they were murdered. The Turkish authorities refusing, after negotiation, to take any notice of the subject or to bring the murderers to justice, Captain Pullen, with the full authority of his Government, bombarded the town; and I have never heard before that that act of justice was found fault with either in this country or any other part of Europe.

BURIALS (IRELAND) BILL— [No. 212.]
(The Earl of Kimberly.)
BURIALS (IRELAND) BILL— [No. 212.]

  COMMITTEE.
  House in Committee (according to Order).
  Amendments made.
  THE ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH THE ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH moved after the Clause inserted after Clause 2, to insert the following Clause:—
  "And whereas many Parish Churches have of late Years been erected on a new Site, having attached to them small Churchyards given or purchased for the sole Use of Persons attending the Worship of the Church, and in Size proportioned to the Wants of the Congregation, leaving the old Churchyard for the general Use of the Parishioners: And whereas many Perpetual Cures and District Parishes have been erected of late Tears and Churches built in them, with small Graveyards intended solely for the Use of the Congregations of such Churches: Be it therefore enacted, That it shall be lawful for the Lord Lieutenant in Council, on Application from the Incumbents of any such Church, to declare the same to be exempt, and which Exemption shall be published in the Dublin Gazette, and thereupon such Churchyards shall be exempted from the Operation of this Act."—(The Lord Archbishop of Armagh.)
  THE EARL OF KIMBERLEYobjected to the clause, which was likely to create an unpleasant feeling in the minds of those whose relatives might be excluded from burial in the small graveyards to which it referred.
  THE ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGHthought that these burial-grounds should not be in all cases exempted; but that there should be in certain cases a possibility of exemption.
  THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDEsaid a few words in opposition to the clause.
  On Question? their Lordships divided:—Contents 42; Not-Contents 23: Majority 19.
  Resolved in the Affirmative.

  CONTENTS.

  Cairns, L. (L. Chancellor.)

  Romney, E.

  Verulam, E.

  Armagh, Archbp.

  De Vesci, V.

  Beaufort, D.

  Hawarden, V.

  Buckingham and Chandos, D.

  Melville, V. [Teller.]

  Sidmouth, V.

  Mar. lborough, D.

  Strathallan, V.

  Richmond, D.

  Gloucester and Bristol, Bp.

  Exeter, M.

  Amherst, E.

  Abinger, L.

  Bathurst, E.

  Bagot, L.

  Cadogan, E.

  Brodrick,L. (V. Middleton.)

  Derby, E.

  Devon, E.

  Chelmsford, L.

  Doncaster, E. (D. Buccleuch and Queensberry.)

  Churston, L.

  Clarina, L.

  Clinton, L.

  Graham, E. (D. Montrose.)

  Colchester, L.

  Colonsay, L.

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  Denman, L.

  Redesdale, L.

  Egerton, L.

  Saltersford,L. (E. Courtown.)

  Feversham, L.

  Fitzwalter, L.

  Silchester, L. (E. Longford.) [Teller.]

  Hartismere, L. (L. Henniker.)

  Stewart of Garlies, L. (E. Galloway.)

  Northwick, L.

  Raglan, L.

  NOT-CONTENTS.

  Cleveland, D.

  Elphinstone, L.

  Foley, L.

  Airlie, E.

  Foxford, L. (E. Limerick.)

  De Grey, E. [Teller.]

  Denbigh, E.

  Lyttelton, L.

  Kimberley, E. [Teller.]

  Lyveden, L.

  Minto, E.

  Monson, L.

  Morley, E.

  Ponsonby, L. (E. Bessborough.)

  Sydney, V.

  Romilly, L.

  Seaton, L.

  Boyle, L. (E. Cork and Orrery.)

  Somerhill L. (M. Clanricarde.)

  Churchill, L.

  Stanley of Alderley, L.

  Cranworth, L.

  Truro, L.

  The Report of the Amendments to be recoived on Monday next, and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 269.)

BANKRUPTCY ACT AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 208.)
(The Lord Cranworth.)
BANKRUPTCY ACT AMENDMENT BILL—(No. 208.)

  COMMITTEE.
  Order for the House to be again in Committee on the said Bill, read.
  LORD CHELMSFORDsaid, there was an impression abroad that he was opposed to the Bill, and that he had the other evening endeavoured to obstruct the progress of the Bill by moving that the House should resume; whereas, as their Lordships were quite aware, his reason for moving that the House resume was that, though the understanding had been that only unopposed Amendments should be then agreed to, one was proposed to which opposition was raised. The fact, however, was that a great many Amendments had been given Notice of which he, in common with many of their Lordships, had not seen, and which, therefore, the House was; unprepared to discuss. So far from being actuated by hostility to the Bill, he was quite in favour of it; for, though its introduction would have been undesirable had there been any immediate prospect of more comprehensive legislation on the subject, the passing of a general bankruptcy measure appeared more and more distant.
  LORD ROMILLYentirely agreed with the noble and learned Lord; for, not having on Tuesday night seen the Amendments of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, he was unable to consider
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  what their effect would be. He now found that many of them were identical with those which he had himself drawn up. He understood that his noble and learned Friend who had charge of the Bill (Lord Cranworth) was prepared to re-print the Bill with the Amendments of the Lord Chancellor, and allow the additional Amendments to be inserted on the Report or third reading. He thought it was much to be regretted that Bills making important changes in the law should be introduced at a period of the Session when it was impossible to avoid blunders which, when exposed in Courts of Law, brought the Legislature into discredit.
  House again in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  LORD CRANWORTHstated that he proposed to accept all the Amendments of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, leaving it open to any of their Lordships on the Report or third reading to bring forward any further Amendments which might appear desirable.
  Amendments made: The Report thereof to be received on Monday next; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 270.)

LARCENY AND EMBEZZLEMENT BILL—(No. 245.)
(The Lord Chelmsford.)
LARCENY AND EMBEZZLEMENT BILL—(No. 245.)

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  LORD CHELMSFORD, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that its object was to remove an inconsistency in the present law under which embezzlement by a partner was not in general punishable except by the tedious process of filing a bill in Equity. It would be necessary, however, to substitute a new clause instead of the first, and that he proposed to do either in Committee or on the Report. A groundless distinction was made by the present law between the penal character of larceny and of embezzlement by clerks and servants, and that distinction also he proposed to do away with.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Lord Chelmsford.)
  THE LORD CHANCELLORapproved the general objects of the Bill, and expressed his satisfaction that his noble and learned Friend was prepared to lay on the table a modification of the first clause. The Bill was not carefully worded. It

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  spoke of "wrongfully defrauding." He did not know what kind of defrauding there could be if it was not wrongful.
  Motion agreed to: Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  MARRIAGES VALIDITY (BLAKEDOWN) BILL. [H.L.]
  A Bill to render valid Marriages heretofore solemnized in the Chapel-of-Ease called Saint James-the-Greater Chapel, Blakedown, in the Parish of Hagley, in the County of Worcester—Was presented by The Lord LYTTELTON; read 1a. (No. 271.)
  House adjourned at Eight o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.