THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURYsaid, it would be in their Lordships' recollection that before the recess he had stated that in consequence of the probability of a Royal Commission being issued to inquire into the subject of Ritualistic Innovations, the idea of introducing a Bill on the subject had been abandoned. He begged now to ask the noble Earl at the head of Her Majesty's Government, Whether it was in contemplation to advise Her Majesty speedily to issue a Royal Commission to deal with that subject?
§ THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, he had had some communication with the most rev. Prelate on the subject of ritualistic practices in the Church of England. At that time the proposal of the most rev. Prelate was, as he understood, that a Royal Commission should be issued solely for the purpose of inquiring with reference to one rubric which prescribed certain ornaments in the church. Subsequently a noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Shaftesbury) gave notice of the introduction of a Bill for dealing with the subject, not by way of Royal Commission, but by Act of Parliament. Entirely concurring in opinion with the noble Earl, he was very anxious to see these practices, which he thought on the increase and tended to disturb the minds of congregations, discontinued. He regarded them as novelties 73 which were quite unnecessary; they revived practices which had not been heard of for 300 years before, and were so far inconsistent with the doctrines and principles of the Church, and wholly alien to the feelings and sentiments of the people. But, while he had a strong conviction on this subject, and saw the expediency of an early settlement of the question, whether these practices were legal or not, he was disposed to concur with the most rev. Prelate that such an object could be best attained, not by discussions in Parliament, which it was possible might be converted into an occasion of political and polemical disputes, but in the same manner in which a satisfactory settlement had been attained of the question of clerical subscription, by means of a Royal Commission, with definite objects prescribed and definite instructions given. But he must state fairly to the most rev. Prelate—what, indeed, he stated on the former occasion privately— and this was the main cause why any delay had occurred in the issuing of the Commission—that in his own judgment and that of his Colleagues, it was not expedient to issue a Commission limited to so small an object as the single examination of that one rubric which dealt with the question of vestments and ornaments in the Church. He thought, without touching the doctrines or teaching of the Book of Common Prayer, it was not undesirable that an examination should take place into the various rubrics which relate to the mode of conducting all the services. There were various points in which the rubrics appeared inconsistent, and some which though perfectly plain were systematically disregarded. He thought it very desirable that the attention of the country should be called, through the investigation of a Commission, to those rubrics which prescribed the mode of celebrating public worship, including those relating to the publication of the banns of marriage. He had seen two Prayer Books, published by authority, in one of which it was stated that the banns should be published immediately after the Nicene Creed, and in the other it was said that they should be published after the Second Lesson in the Morning Service. Again, it was distinctly laid down in the rubric that after the celebration of the Holy Communion the Offertory should take place, and that where there was no Communion the service should terminate with the Prayer for the Church Militant. Now, it was well 74 known that no uniformity of practice existed in these respects; and it would be desirable, for the purpose of establishing uniformity, that a Royal Commission should investigate the subject. Of course the terms of the appointment of the Commission would be carefully considered, and they would confer on the Commissioners the power of inquiry, and expressing an opinion, whether there was any occasion for altering or amending any of the rubrics he had referred to, or for leaving it discretionary with the ministers in certain cases either to comply with them or not. He was quite prepared to say in answer to the Question put to him—as he understood that the right rev. Prelates were favourable to the issue of a Commission—that he was ready to advise its issue on the understanding that the investigation of the Commission was to embrace such subjects as he had laid before their Lordships, without dealing with any question of doctrine or discipline. He did not think it desirable that a Commission should issue for the purpose of inquiring exclusively into the question of vestments and ornaments, for he thought that there would be an advantage in extending the inquiry beyond that single subject. He hoped the Commission would have the co-operation of the right rev. Bench, and that there would be no objection to extend the inquiry in the manner he had suggested.
THE EARL OF CARNARVONsaid, that the noble Earl had stated very clearly what would be the general objects of the Commission; but he presumed that the noble Earl would have no objection to lay, previously to the issue of the Commission, some fuller information on the table of the House as to the particular instructions which would be embodied in the Commission.
THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURYsaid, that for his part he was perfectly willing to concur in the noble Earl's suggestion with respect to the limitations of the inquiries of the Commission.
THE BISHOP OF CARLISLEsaid, that as the noble Earl had intimated that the course proposed was asked for by the majority of the right rev. Bench, he did not wish it to be understood that there was not an unanimous wish on the part of the right rev. Prelates that a Royal Commission should issue on the matters which had been referred to. He and those who concurred with him thought that the issue of a Commission would lead to practical 75 delay in dealing with the question of ritualism, and that in the meanwhile the evil complained of would continue and spread. To counteract that evil some energetic action was required, and he felt that the proper mode of proceeding would have been, as it was well-known had been contemplated by some very distinguished Members of the Episcopal Bench, the introduction of a Bill by the Bishops themselves. Thus the opportunity would have been given them of conferring a lasting benefit on the Church of England, and he regretted that, as more timid counsels had prevailed, they must fall back on a Commission. Had the Bill been introduced they might have found a decided and immediate remedy against ritualism.
THE BISHOP OF LONDONdesired to express his thanks to the noble Earl for his proposal to issue a Commission on the subject of ritualism, which should be dealt with in the first instance. He thought also their Lordships were indebted to the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Shaftesbury) for having brought the subject prominently forward. If the noble Earl thought it right to proceed with his Bill respecting clerical vestments, it did not follow that the existence of the proposed Commission was necessarily inconsistent with that measure; but perhaps the noble Earl would think it better to withdraw the Bill in the event of the Commission being issued. There were a great many questions connected with this matter not touched by the noble Earl's Bill, and therefore he was glad that the inquiries of the Commission would extend to other points.
THE BISHOP OF RIPONtrusted that the noble Earl would proceed with his Bill, and he believed that its passing would be attended with the greatest advantage to the Church.
THE BISHOP OF OXFORDtendered his thanks to the noble Earl at the head of the Government for the announcement he had made. He endorsed what had fallen from his right rev. Brethren, except that he felt that there should be an inquiry by a Commission before any legislation took place. He also begged to thank the noble Earl (the Earl of Shaftesbury) for his Bill, for he felt quite sure that he was only influenced in introducing it by his deep attachment to the Church, friendliness to that Bench, and a real desire to see all difficult and perplexing questions set at rest. But in the free exercise of his judgment, he (the Bishop of Oxford) thought the best 76 way of settling these questions would be by the constitutional method of the action of the Crown. There must be a certain rigidity and roughness in the interruption of an old and long established system of legislation, except preliminary means were used to soften the edges of division. He therefore, with great deference, ventured to suggest to the noble Earl that the object which they all had in view might, under God's blessing, be obtained more safely and certainly by proceeding somewhat more leisurely in the course he was about to take, and that he would speed better in securing the object he had in view by not making too much haste at the outset.
THE EARL OF CARNARVONwished to know whether the noble Earl at the head of the Government would answer his question, and state what particular rubrics the Commission would be called upon to deal with?
§ THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, that the terms of the Commission would be such as to include all those questions into which it was deemed necessary that inquiry should take place, concerning the mode of conducting Divine service, without dealing with any of the doctrines or principles taught in that service. It was quite impossible to single out each particular rubric with which the Commissioners would be empowered to deal. General instructions would be given to the Commission for the prosecution of their inquiry, and they would be left to exercise their discretion in dealing with all the rubrics, and forming an opinion upon them.
§ EARL STANHOPEsaid, he would like to know whether any alteration would be proposed in the marriage or any of the other services?
§ THE EARL OF DERBYsaid, that at present considerable doubt existed as to whether banns should be published at one stage of the Divine service or at another, and that was a point which invited attention. It was not, however, meant that the form of the marriage or that of the burial service should in the slightest degree be interfered with.
THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORKcould not help thinking that the subject was one which was ripe for legislation. The Convocation of the Province of Canterbury had pronounced an opinion upon it, and an opinion still more decided had emanated from the Convocation of the Province of of York. Indeed, no Church question had, 77 so far as he knew, received a fuller consideration before it came to be dealt with in Parliament than that of Ritualism. Deeming it, however, desirable that the Members of the Bench of Bishops should be united with respect to the course to be pursued, be should give his assent to the proposal for issuing a Commission, although for his own part he should have preferred legislation at the hands of their Lordships' House.
§ THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURYsaid, he could see no good reason why a state of things should be prolonged which had already so much disturbed men's minds and shocked their consciences. He quite agreed with the most rev. Prelate that the subject was ripe for legislation, and the sooner they addressed themselves to wipe away a great evil from the face of the Church the better, for while it continued not hundreds but thousands were day by day and hour by hour being alienated from the Church of England and her communion, and drifting some into indifferentism, some into the bosom of the Church of Rome; and this evil was mainly occasioned by the dissatisfaction and fear which the present state of things created. It was impossible, he contended, that the proposed Commission, though its inquiry should be limited to the question of vestments alone, could publish its Report in the present Session; while if it had to deal with all the subjects which the noble Earl at the head of the Government indicated, its labours could not be brought to a close within a period of two or three years. Moreover, what would occur in the end when the Commissioners had concluded their labours? At the end of that time the Commissioners must report that the use of vestments was either legal or illegal. If they were legal an Act of Parliament would be required to do away with the abomination; and if they were illegal an Act of Parliament would equally be required, inasmuch as the law as it stood was not sufficiently strong for the purpose of its extinction. The right rev. Prelate opposite (the Bishop of Oxford) had observed that there was almost a sort of indelicacy in obtruding on an old system the coarseness and the roughness of the statute law; but he seemed to forget that we were now resting on the statute law and that the rubric to which he had intimated that he should direct their Lordships' attention was part of the statute law, being embodied in the Act of Uniformity. He 78 would simply add that he at present saw no good reason why he should not proceed with his Bill.
THE BISHOP OF OXFORDexplained that all he had contended for was that legislation should be preceded by inquiry. The edges of division should be softened, and they should not begin by hasty legislation. He was, of course, perfectly aware of the fact stated by the noble Earl who had just sat down as to what was statute law. What he deprecated was the alteration of the existing law without first instituting inquiry.