Lords Sitting of 7 June 1867

MINUTES.
PUBLIC BILLS—First Reading—New Parishes and Church Building Acts Amendment* (146); Agricultural Employment* (147); Consecration and Ordination Fees* (148); County Treasurers (Ireland)* (149); National Gallery Enlargement* (150); Colonial Bishops* (153).
Second Reading—Metropolitan Police* (135).
Report—Policies of Insurance* (151 & 152); Public Libraries (Scotland) Acts Amendment* (128); Chester Courts* (77).
Third Reading—(£14,000,000) Consolidated Fund*; (£1,700,000) Exchequer Bonds*; Public Works Loans*(137); Contagious Diseases (Animals)* (139); Pier and Harbour Orders Confirmation*(117); Intestates Widows and Children* (120), and passed.

PROOF OF FIREARMS.—QUESTION.
EARL SPENCERasked the Under Secretary of State for War, Whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's Government to amend the Proof Acts this Session, so as to make them more applicable than at present to breech-loading arms. His reason for bringing the subject forward was that the manufacture and sale of firearms in this country were regulated by Acts of Parliament, and that upon those Acts persons who used firearms depended for their safety. In 1855 an Act of Parliament was passed relative to this subject, which contemplated the probability of changes becoming necessary. In 1862, the then Secretary of State for War introduced certain Amendments, and the time had now arrived when it was necessary to make further Amendments in the law. Since 1862 great improvements had taken place in small arms, especially with regard to breech-loaders, and the attention of scientific men in Europe and in America had been largely turned to this subject. He

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believed that some doubts existed as to how far breech-loaders were affected by the present Proof Acts, and he would therefore ask his noble Friend whether the law was clear upon the point? He had, however, been induced to ask the Question which he had put upon the Paper because there were at present a great many different kinds of cartridges manufactured; and, as the safety of a breechloader depended partly upon the nature of the arm and partly upon the nature of the cartridge, a breech-loader which was perfectly safe with one kind of cartridge might be unsafe with another. A great many accidents had taken place in consequence of using breech-loaders and cartridges which did not correspond with each other. A noble Friend of his, for instance, had been seriously injured by using a metallic cartridge with an arm which had been found perfectly safe with a paper one. Indeed, an arm was not always safe, even if employed with the same kind of cartridge, for a great many breeches had been blown open by using cartridges which, though similar to those with which the gun had been proved, were faulty in construction. The subject was one of great interest and importance to the public, and well worthy attention.
THE EARL OF LONGFORDsaid, there were two Companies, who acted practically as one in this matter, to whom all the arrangements for proving gun barrels had been intrusted almost from time immemorial. By the Act of 1855 these Companies were empowered to frame bye-laws amending their powers with reference to the proof of gun barrels, which, after receiving the approval of the Recorder of Birmingham in some cases, and of Her Majesty's Secretary of State in all cases, would have the force of law. It would not, therefore, be necessary to make any alteration in the law as it at present existed. These Companies had, of course, noticed the consequences which had attended the introduction of breech-loaders and the change in the construction of arms, and had proposed certain alterations in their bye-laws to meet the case, which were at present under consideration of the Secretary of State. The change proposed would, he hoped, give increased security as far as the proof of gun barrels was concerned. He was afraid, however, that would not afford security in the case of the cartridges, because the manufacture of cartridges was a trade entirely independent
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of the gunmakers. He had not yet heard of any precise plan by which that security could be obtained, but it was to be hoped that the manufacturers of cartridges might be able to come to an understanding amongst themselves, in the same manner as the gunmakers had done; so that by the adoption of recognised marks on cartridges the public might be able to ascertain without difficulty with what arm any particular kind of cartridge might be safely employed.

PROOF OF FIREARMS.—QUESTION.
  NEW PARISHES AND CHURCH BUILDING ACTS AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the New Parishes Acts and Church Building Acts—Was presented by The Archbishop of YORK; read 1a. (No. 146.)
  AGRICULTURAL EMPLOYMENT BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to regulate the Employment of Children and Young Persons in Agriculture in England—Was presented by The Lord PORTMAN; read 1a. (No. 147.)
  CONSECRATION AND ORDINATION FEES BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill for the Establishment of a Table of Fees to be taken on the Consecration of Churches and Burial Grounds and on the Ordination of Deacons and Priests—Was presented by The Archbishop of CANTERBURY; read 1a. (No. 148.)

  COLONIAL BISHOPS BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to remove Doubts as to the Effect of Letters Patent granted to certain Colonial Bishops, and to provide for the Disposal of Property upon the Death of such Bishops—Was presented by The Duke of BUCKINGHAM AND CHANDOS; read 1a. (No. 153.)
  House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, to Monday the 17th Instant, at a quarter before Four o'clock.