Lords Sitting of 5 February 1867

Preamble
THE PARLIAMENT,which had been Prorogued successively from the 10th day of August to the 25th day of October; thence to the 20th day of November; thence to the 15th day of January; thence to the 5th day of February; met this day for Despatch of Business.
The Session of PARLIAMENT was opened by THE QUEEN in Person.

THE QUEEN'S SPEECH.
HER MAJESTY,being seated on the Throne, adorned with Her Crown and Regal Ornaments, and attended by Her Officers of State:—The PRINCE OF WALES (in his Robes) sitting in his Chair on HER
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MAJESTY'S right hand—(the Lords being in their Robes)—commanded the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, through the Deputy Lord Great Chamberlain, to let the Commons know "It is Her Majesty's Pleasure they attend Her immediately, in this House."
Who being come, with their Speaker;
The LORD CHANCELLOR, taking Directions from HER MAJESTY, said—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"IN again recurring to your Advice and Assistance, I am happy to inform you that My Relations with Foreign Powers are on a friendly and satisfactory Footing.
"I HOPE that the Termination of the War in which Prussia, Austria, and Italy have been engaged may

3
lead to the Establishment of a durable Peace in Europe.
"I HAVE suggested to the Government of the United States a Mode by which Questions pending between the Two Countries arising out of the late Civil War may receive amicable Solution, and which, if met, as I trust it will be, in a corresponding Spirit, will remove all Grounds of possible Misunderstanding, and promote Relations of cordial Friendship.
"THE War between Spain and the Republics of Chili and Peru still continues, the good Offices of My Government, in conjunction with that of The Emperor of the French, having failed to effect a Reconciliation. If either by Agreement between the Parties themselves, or by the Mediation of any other friendly Power, Peace shall be restored, the Object which I have had in view will equally be attained.
"DISCONTENT prevailing in some Provinces of the Turkish Empire has broken out in actual Insurrection in Crete. In common with My Allies, The Emperor of the French and The Emperor of Russia, I have abstained from any active Interference in these internal Disturbances, but Our joint Efforts have been directed to bringing about improved Relations between the Porte and its Christian Subjects not inconsistent with the sovereign Rights of The Sultan.
"THE protracted Negotiations which arose out of the Acceptance by Prince Charles of Hohenzollern of the Government of the Danubian Principalities have been happily terminated by an Arrangement to which the Porte has given its ready Adhesion, and which
4
has been sanctioned by the Concurrence of all the Powers, Signataries of the Treaty of 1856.
"RESOLUTIONS in favour of a more intimate Union of the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick have been passed by their several Legislatures; and Delegates duly authorized and representing all Classes of Colonial Party and Opinion have concurred in the Conditions upon which such an Union may be best effected. In accordance with] their Wishes a Bill will be submitted to you, which, by the Consolidation of Colonial Interests and Resources, will give Strength to the several Provinces as Members of the same Empire, and animated by Feelings of Loyalty to the same Sovereign.
"I HAVE heard with deep Sorrow that the Calamity of Famine has pressed heavily on My Subjects in some Parts of India. Instructions were issued to My Government in that Country to make the utmost Exertions to mitigate the Distress which prevailed during the Autumn of last Year. The Blessing of an abundant Harvest has since that Time materially improved the Condition of the suffering Districts.
"THE persevering Efforts and unscrupulous Assertions of treasonable Conspirators abroad have, during the last Autumn, excited the Hopes of some disaffected Persons in Ireland, and the Apprehensions of the loyal Population; but the firm, yet temperate Exercise of the Powers entrusted to the Executive, and the Hostility manifested against the Conspiracy by Men of all Classes and Creeds, have greatly tended to restore Public Con-

5
fidence, and have rendered hopeless any Attempt to disturb the general Tranquillity. I trust that you may consequently be enabled to dispense with the Continuance of any exceptional Legislation for that Part of My Dominions.
"I ACKNOWLEDGE, with deep Thankfulness to Almighty God, the great Decrease that has taken place in the Cholera, and in the Pestilence which has attacked our Cattle; but the continued Prevalence of the latter in some Foreign Countries, and its occasional Re-appearance in this, will still render necessary some special Measures of Precaution; and I trust that the Visitation of the former will lead to increased Attention to those Sanitary Measures which Experience has shown to be the best Preventive.
"ESTIMATING as of the highest Importance an adequate Supply of pure and wholesome Water, I have directed the Issue of a Commission to inquire into the best Means of permanently securing such a Supply for the Metropolis, and for the principal Towns in densely-peopled Districts of the Kingdom.
Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"I HAVE directed the Estimates for the ensuing Year to be laid before you. They have been prepared with a due Regard to Economy, and to the Requirements of the public Service.
"You will, I am assured, give your ready Assent to a moderate Expenditure calculated to improve the Condition of My Soldiers, and to lay the Foundation of an efficient Army of Reserve.
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"YOUR Attention will again be called to the State of the Representation of the People in Parliament; and I trust that your Deliberations, conducted in a Spirit of Moderation and mutual Forbearance, may lead to the Adoption of Measures which, without unduly disturbing the Balance of political Power, shall freely extend the Elective Franchise.
"THE frequent Occurrence of Disagreements between Employers of Labour and their Workmen, causing much private Suffering and public Loss, and occasionally leading, as is alleged, to Acts of Outrage and Violence, has induced Me to issue a Commission to inquire into and report upon the Organization of Trades Unions and other Associations, whether of Workmen or Employers, with Power to suggest any Improvement of the Law for their mutual Benefit. Application will be made to you for Parliamentary Powers, which will be necessary to make this Inquiry effective.
"I HAVE directed Bills to be laid before you for the Extension of the beneficial Provisions of the Factory Acts to other Trades specially reported on by the Royal Commission on the Employment of Children, and for the better Regulation, according to the Principle of those Acts, of Workshops where Women and Children are largely employed.
"THE Condition of the Mercantile Marine has attracted My serious Attention. Complaints are made that the Supply of Seamen is deficient, and that the Provisions for their Health and Discipline on board Ship are im-

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perfect. Measures will be submitted to you with a view to increase the Efficiency of this important Service.
"I HAVE observed with Satisfaction the Relaxations recently introduced into the Navigation Laws of France. I have expressed to The Emperor of the French My Readiness to submit to Parliament a Proposal for the Extinction, on equitable Terms, of the Exemptions from local Charges on Shipping which are still enjoyed by a limited Number of Individuals in British Ports; and His Imperial Majesty has, in anticipation of this Step, already admitted British Ships to the Advantage of the new Law. A Bill upon this Subject will forthwith be laid before you.
"A BILL will also be submitted to you for making better Provision for the Arrangement of the Affairs of Railway Companies which are unable to meet their Engagements.
"MEASURES will be submitted to you for Improving the Management of sick and other Poor in the Metropolis, and for a Re-distribution of some of the Charges for Relief therein.
"YOUR Attention will also be called to the Amendment of the Law of Bankruptcy; to the Consolidation of the Courts of Probate and Divorce and Admiralty; and to the Means of disposing, with greater Despatch and Frequency, of the increasing Business in the Superior Courts of Common Law and at the Assizes.
"THE Relations between Landlord and Tenant in Ireland have engaged My anxious Attention, and a Bill will be laid before you which, without interfering with the Rights of Property, will offer direct Encouragement
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to Occupiers of Land to improve their Holdings, and provide a simple Mode of obtaining Compensation for permanent Improvements.
"I COMMEND to your careful Consideration these and other Measures which will be brought before you; and I pray that your Labours may, under the Blessing of Providence, conduce to the Prosperity of the Country, and the Happiness of My People."
Then HER MAJESTY retired.
ROLL OF THE LOEDS—Garter King of Arms attending, delivered at the Table (in the usual Manner) a List of the Lords Temporal in the Second Session of the Nineteenth Parliament of the United Kingdom: The same was Ordered to lie on the Table.
Several Lords—Took the Oath.
Charles Stanley Viscount Monck, in that Part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland called Ireland, having been created Baron Monck of Ballytrammon in the County of Wexford—Was (in the usual Manner) introduced.
Gustavus Frederick Viscount Boyne, in that Part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland called Ireland, having been created Baron Brancepeth of Brancepeth in the County Palatine of Durham—Was (in the usual Manner) introduced.
Writs and Returns electing The Viscount Templetown a Representative Peer for Ireland in the Room of the late Earl of Lanesborough, deceased, with the Certificate of the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland annexed thereto—Delivered (on Oath), and Certificate read.
The Marquess Camden—Sat first in Parliament after the Death of his father.
The Earl of Chesterfield—Sat first in Parliament after the Death of his Father.

SELECT VESTRIES.
Bill, pro forma, read 1a.
THE QUEEN'S SPEECHhaving been reported by The LORD CHANCELLOR;—

ADDRESS TO HER MAJESTY ON HER MOST GRACIOUS SPEECH.
EARL BEAUCHAMP,in rising to move an humble Address in answer to Her Majesty's most gracious Speech from the Throne, said: My Lords, in approaching my arduous and responsible task, I cannot but wish it had been committed to some Peer of greater experience in your Lordships' House than I can in any way pretend to. The topics suggested by the Speech are so numerous, so varied, and so important, that it will be impossible to give each of them, in so short a time, anything like the consideration they deserve. I will, however, presume to touch upon a few of the principal matters referred to.
Your Lordships will, I have no doubt, fully concur with me in the belief that the first topic in the Speech has been so placed from a due regard to its importance—for to this country the question of peace or war is one of the deepest interest. It must, therefore, be a matter of great satisfaction to your Lordships to be assured that Her Majesty's relations with Foreign Powers continue to be of the most friendly description. When you remember that so recently as last year the peace of Europe was disturbed by a sanguinary war, it is, indeed, satisfactory for us to learn that Her Majesty can express a confident hope in the duration of peace in Europe. The blessings of peace are so great that it is impossible to overrate them. It is, therefore, matter for further congratulation that those difficult questions which exist between the United States and this country—questions which have given rise to a considerable amount of apprehension in the minds of a large portion of the population of this country, are now in the way of a speedy and satisfactory solution. My Lords, I believe that but one feeling animates the people of this country; and that is a most cordial desire to be on friendly terms with the people of the great American Republic. And while it is right and proper for this country to maintain what they may fairly regard as their own right, it is not unbecoming for a great nation like ours, should feelings of irritation arise, to make such concessions as we may make without injury to our honour in order to secure the continuance of friendly relations with Foreign Powers, which are so important to our prosperity. My Lords, Her Majesty has told us that She regrets the continuance of the war
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between Spain and Chile and Peru; and we can heartily join with her in the hope that peace between those belligerents may soon be restored. During the recess your Lordships' attention has doubtless been called to the insurrection in Crete, and your Lordships had, no doubt, read with heartfelt pity the record of the heroic and gallant struggles which have taken place on that island. I think it is a matter of some satisfaction that the insurrection took place while Parliament was not sitting. I cannot forget the struggle which was made by a gallant nation—the Poles—and that during that struggle injudicious expressions used by Members of Parliament were construed into meaning that this country was prepared to afford a far larger amount of sympathy for the cause than was ever intended. I think that the Members of the Legislature should bear in mind the great responsibility which attaches to their utterances. We have seen the result in the case of Poland, and I cannot but rejoice that the insurrection in Crete took place when this House was not sitting, because expressions of sympath might have been regarded as promises of material assistance which we were unable to afford. The House will, however, learn with great satisfaction that Her Majesty has been enabled, in common with her allies, to bring about improved relations between the Porte and its Christian subjects not inconsistent with the sovereign rights of the Sultan. My Lords, that observation applies not only to Crete, but also to the Danubian Principalities, an arrangement having been made to which the Porte had given its ready adhesion, and which has been sanctioned by all the Powers signataries of the Treaty of 1856.
While, however, my Lords, we look with satisfaction to our relations with Foreign Powers, we should not lose sight of the interests of those colonies which, sheltered under our fostering care, have grown and increased in strength until they have assumed the importance and responsibilities of large communities. It must accordingly be gratifying to know that a Bill is to be introduced for the consolidation of their interests and resources. We should all be heartily glad if the same love of peace and desire for union which prevails in our North American Colonies existed in every other portion of the British Empire. Unhappily a widely-spread conspiracy has for some years dis-

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turbed the security of the loyal portion of Her Majesty's subjects in Ireland. But we have at least the satisfaction of knowing that the designs of the misguided men who engaged in that senseless undertaking have been completely defeated by the prudent precautions which have been taken by the Government, and also to some extent, we may hope, by the reviving loyalty of some of the persons who had been deluded by the machinations of the leading conspirators. The danger has now, in a great measure, passed away; and, happily, the spirit of disaffection has extended to only a small portion of the population of Ireland, while the whole course of those events has shown that the vast majority of that population, of all creeds and classes, are sincerely attached to the Crown and Government of the United Kingdom.
Her Majesty expresses the deep sorrow with which She has heard of the dreadful famine which since last summer has afflicted some portion of Her Indian subjects; and there is not one among your Lordships who does not share in that feeling, and who will not rejoice with Her Majesty in the termination of so great a calamity. At the meeting of Parliament at the commencement of last year, a large portion of the agricultural interest of this country was greatly affected by the cattle plague, which occasioned great suffering and distress in many districts; but your Lordships will hear with satisfaction that by reason of the important measures which were passed by Parliament, or in consequence of the natural dying out of the disease in the winter months, the scourge has passed away. We have, however, since had to meet a more serious peril to our social welfare and prosperity created by a visitation of cholera. That, too, has passed away; but the poison of that disease is so subtle and so deadly, that it is evidently the duty of those charged with the responsibility of Government to take every precaution against the recurrence of such a calamity; and therefore we must learn with satisfaction that a Royal Commission is about to be appointed for the purpose of inquiring into the important sanitary subject of the supply of pure water to our towns and cities. While referring to that topic, I will venture to express a hope that the owners of property throughout the country will do all in their power to aid in furthering these efforts for the promotion of the public health, and that they
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will all in that respect imitate the good example set us by Her Majesty. The Royal Speech afterwards contains a reference to the subject of Parliamentary Reform; and I am sure your Lordships will heartily rejoice to know that there exists at last a prospect of bringing that long-vexed question to a satisfactory settlement. It is impossible for me to say what may be the nature of the proposal Her Majesty's Government will have to submit to Parliament upon this subject; but we must all earnestly hope that it will be one calculated to improve the constitution of the country.
The questions of our sanitary condition and of Parliamentary Reform are no doubt of immense consequence; but I venture to think that in their immediate bearing on the National welfare they must yield to that great danger which is impending over the country in consequence of the baleful operations of the trades unions. We have adopted the principle of free trade in our whole commercial policy; but I believe that freedom of trade cannot exist without freedom of labour, and that this country cannot maintain its position as the industrial centre of the commercial world if the operations of the trades unions restrict the employment of labour and prevent the artisans from making the best use they can of their skill and industry. Adam Smith, in his Wealth of Nations, lays down the doctrine that the patrimony of the working-man consists in his strength and dexterity of hand, and that anything that prevents him from employing that strength and dexterity is a violation of his just rights. The restrictions which are now imposed on the working-men of this country are of a different kind from those which were contemplated by Adam Smith, but they are not the less serious nor less dangerous. It is possibly within the knowledge of your Lordships that important trades and branches of manufactures formerly executed in this country are passing away from us in consequence of the operations of a portion of our artisans; and those artisans not only injure themselves by the course they have thought fit to adopt, but they deprive other people of the opportunity of earning their accustomed wages, and thus they materially diminish the general means of subsistence. I am persuaded that your Lordships will do all you can to render the inquiries of the Royal Commission into this subject as

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effective as possible. I further believe that you will heartily join in returning your humble thanks to Her Majesty for the interest She has exhibited in the condition of children employed in factories. The factory laws already form one of the brightest pages in our National legislation, and we shall all heartily rejoice if any considerable addition can be made to that legislation during the course of the present Session. Another important subject, to which Her Majesty refers, is the relief of embarrassed railway companies; and it is manifestly desirable that some mode should, if possible, be adopted of enabling them to meet their liabilities. Her Majesty also informs us that the relation of landlord and tenant in Ireland is also to engage our attention during the present Session. It is not for me, unacquainted as I am with Ireland, to express any opinion upon that question; but of this I feel assured, that if any simple mode can be provided of giving compensation for permanent improvements, it will go far to settle a question which has disturbed a considerable part of Ireland, and heal a very dangerous sore. I shall be ashamed to trespass any longer on your Lordships' attention, but I cannot prevail on myself to conclude without making one other observation. In these times, when efforts are made to persuade this and other countries that the people of England are dissatisfied with the institutions under which they live, I cannot refrain from noting with satisfaction and pleasure—in which I am sure all your Lordships will share—the enthusiastic reception accorded to the Queen in Her recent visit to one of the great mining districts of the kingdom. Her Majesty was received on that occasion with a most cordial welcome; the highest and the lowest vied with each other in demonstrations of affection to their Sovereign. I venture to think that no occasion could have been more appropriate for Her Majesty to re-appear among Her people, as the national exponent of their sympathies, whether of sorrow or joy, than the inauguration of a monument to the memory of that great Prince whose wisdom diminished the care, as his affection enhanced the happiness, of Her who was at once his Monarch and his wife. The Queen did not need that overwhelming burst of loyalty and attachment to convince Her how dearly prized by Her loving subjects is that personal discharge of duties which, though not essential to State affairs, mate-
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rially conduce to the chivalrous affection entertained for the person of the Queen. I Her Majesty now approaches the completion of the thirtieth year of Her reign, and I venture to think that, in the course of the thousand years during which the long line of Her illustrious ancestors has wielded the sceptre now swayed by Her Majesty's hands, there is no period of thirty years which will justly challenge comparison with that now elapsed, for the attention bestowed on the welfare and prosperity of the people; and I make bold to say that if Parliament in its wisdom should fulfil the designs of the Queen, and apply itself in that spirit of moderation and forbearance, so wisely recommended to us from the Throne, to the consideration of the measures promised in Her Majesty's Speech, this present Session will take no unworthy place among its predecessors of this happy reign. The occasion to which I have referred—the visits to Wolverhampton—affords a convincing testimony that the attention which the Crown and the Legislature have given to the condition of the people has borne abundant fruit in dutiful attachment to the Queen, and in a profound appreciation of the institutions under which it is our blessing to live; and, my Lords, no one can doubt that in the person of the Queen has been fulfilled the prediction of the Poet—
"Entire and sure that monarch's rule must prove Who founds her greatness on her subjects' love.',
My Lords, I beg to move the following humble Address to Her Majesty, thanking Her Majesty for Her Most Gracious Speech from the Throne:—
MOST GRACIOUS SOVEHEIGN,
"WE, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal Subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to offer our humble Thanks to Your Majesty for Your Majesty's gracious Speech.
"WE rejoice to learn that Your Majesty's Relations with Foreign Powers are on a friendly and satisfactory Footing, and we join with Your Majesty in the Hope that the Termination of the War in which Prussia, Austria, and Italy have been engaged may tend to the Establishment of durable Peace in Europe.
"WE humbly assure Your Majesty that we learn with Satisfaction that Your Majesty has suggested to the Government of the United States a Mode by which Questions, pending between the Two Countries, arising out of the late Civil War,

15
may receive an amicable Solution, and which, if met, as Your Majesty trusts it will be, in a corresponding Spirit, will remove all Grounds of possible Misunderstanding, and promote Relations of cordial Friendship.
"WITH Your Majesty, we regret the Continuance of the War between Spain and the Republics of Chili and Peru, and we lament that the good Offices of Your Majesty's Government, in conjunction with that of The Emperor of the French, should have failed to have effected a Reconciliation. It will be a Cause of Satisfaction to us, if either by Agreement between the Parties themselves, or by the Mediation of any other friendly Power, Peace should be restored.
"WE have observed with Regret that Discontent prevailing in some Provinces of the Turkish Empire has broken out in actual Insurrection in Crete; but we learn with Satisfaction, that in common with Your Majesty's Allies, The Emperor of the French and The Emperor of Russia, Your Majesty has abstained from any active Interference in those internal Disturbances; and that the Efforts of Your Majesty and Your Allies have been directed to bring about such improved Relations between the Porte and its Christian Subjects as are not inconsistent with the sovereign Rights of The Sultan.
"WE thank Your Majesty for informing us that the protracted Negotiations which arose out of the Acceptance by Prince Charles of Hohenzollern of the Government of the Danubian Principalities have been happily terminated by an Arrangement to which the Porte has given its ready Adhesion, and which has been sanctioned by the Concurrence of all the Powers, Signataries of the Treaty of 1856.
"WE rejoice to be informed by Your Majesty that Resolutions in favour of a more intimate Union of the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick have been passed by their several Legislatures, and that Delegates duly authorized, and representing all Classes of Colonial Party and Opinion, have concurred in the Conditions upon which such an Union may be best effected. We assure Your Majesty that we will give our most careful Attention to the Bill which, in accordance with the Wishes of those Colonies, Your Majesty has directed to be submitted to us, and which, by the Consolidation of Colonial Interests and Resources, will, we trust, give Strength to the several Provinces as Members of the same Empire, and animated by Feelings of Loyalty to the same Sovereign.
"WE have heard with deep Sorrow that the Calamity of Famine has pressed heavily on Your
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Majesty's Subjects in some Parts of India. We thank Your Majesty for informing us that Instructions were issued to Your Majesty's Government in that Country to make the utmost Exertions to mitigate the Distress which prevailed during the Autumn of last Year; and we rejoice that the Blessing of an abundant Harvest has since that Time materially improved the Condition of the suffering Districts.
"WE have observed with deep Concern that the persevering Efforts and unscrupulous Assertions of treasonable Conspirators abroad have, during the last Autumn, excited the Hopes of some disaffected Persons in Ireland, and the Apprehensions of the loyal Population; but we learn with the greatest Satisfaction that the firm yet temperate Exercise of the Powers entrusted to the Executive, and the Hostility manifested against the Conspiracy by Men of all Classes and Creeds, have greatly tended to restore Public Confidence, and rendered hopeless any Attempt to disturb the general Tranquillity. With Your Majesty, we consequently trust that we may be enabled to dispense with the Continuance of any exceptional Legislation for that Part of Your Majesty's Dominions.
"WITH Your Majesty we join in acknowledging, with deep Thankfulness to Almighty God, the great Decrease which has taken place in the Cholera, and in the Pestilence which has attacked our Cattle; we regret that the continued Prevalence of the latter in some Foreign Countries, and its occasional Re-appearance in this, will still render necessary some special Measures of Precaution; but we trust that the Visitation of the former will add to increased Attention to those Sanitary Measures which Experience has shown to be its best Preventive.
"WE thank Your Majesty for informing us that, estimating as of the highest Importance an adequate Supply of pure and wholesome Water, Your Majesty has directed the Issue of a Commission to inquire into the best Means of permanently securing such a Supply for the Metropolis, and for the principal Towns in densely-peopled Districts of the Kingdom.
"WE convey to Your Majesty our humble Thanks for informing us, that our Attention will again be called to the State of the Representation of the People in Parliament; and, with Your Majesty, we trust that our Deliberations, conducted in a Spirit of Moderation and mutual Forbearance may lead to the Adoption of Measures which, without unduly disturbing the Balance of Political Power, shall freely extend the Elective Fran, chise.
"WE humbly thank Your Majesty for informing us that the frequent Occurrence of Disagreements between Employers of Labour and their Workmen, causing much private Suffering and public Loss, and occasionally leading, as is alleged, to Acts of Outrage and Violence, has induced Your Majesty to issue a Commission to inquire into and report upon the Organization of Trades Unions and other Associations, whether of Workmen or Employers, with Power to suggest any Improvement of the Law for their mutual Benefit. We assure Your Majesty that any Parliamentary Powers which may be necessary for making that Inquiry effective will be readily given by us.
"WE convey to Your Majesty our humble Thanks for having directed Bills to be laid before us for the Extension of the beneficial Provisions of the Factory Acts to other Trades specially reported on by the Royal Commission on the Employment of Children, and for the better Regulation, according to the Principle of those Acts, of Workshops where Women and Children are largely employed.
"WE thank Your Majesty for informing us that the Condition of the Mercantile Marine has attracted the serious Attention of Your Majesty, and that Measures will be submitted to us with a view to increase the Efficiency of that important Service.
"WE learn with Satisfaction that Relaxations have been lately introduced into the Navigation Laws of France; that Your Majesty has expressed to The Emperor of the French Your Readiness to submit to Parliament a Proposal for the Extinction, on equitable Terms, of the Exemptions from local Charges on Shipping which are still enjoyed by a limited Number of Individuals in British Ports; and that His Imperial Majesty has, in anticipation of this Step, already admitted British Ships to the Advantage of the new Law. We will give our careful Attention to the Bill upon this Subject which Your Majesty has directed to be forthwith laid before us.
"WE humbly assure Your Majesty that we will give our most serious Consideration to the Bill which is to be submitted to us for making better Provision for the Arrangement of the Affairs of Railway Companies which are unable to meet their Engagements; as well as to any Measures for improving the Management of sick and other Poor in the Metropolis, and for a Re-distribution of some of the Charges for Relief therein.
"OUR most careful Attention will be given to the Measures for the Amendment of the Law of Bankruptcy, and the Consolidation of the Courts
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of Probate and Divorce and Admiralty; also to the Means of disposing, with greater Despatch and Frequency, of the increasing Business in the Superior Courts of Common Law and at the Assizes.
"WE humbly thank Your Majesty for informing us that the Relations between Landlord and Tenant in Ireland have engaged the anxious Attention of Your Majesty, and that a Bill will be laid before us, which, without interfering with the Rights of Property, will offer direct Encouragement to Occupiers of Land to improve their Holdings, and provide a simple Mode of obtaining Compensation for permanent Improvements.
"WITH Your Majesty, we pray that our Labours may, under the Blessing of Providence, conduce to the Prosperity of the Country and the Happiness of Your People."
LORD DELAMERE: My Lords, in rising to second this Address, I must venture, in the first place, to ask for your Lordships' indulgence, which I am satisfied was never yet refused. I have been some time a Member of your Lordships' House, but I have never before ventured to address you; and though I cannot say that I am a young Member in any sense of the word, I am sure that, whatever indulgence your Lordships would extend to the youngest Member of your House will not be withheld from me. I find myself in a position of no ordinary difficulty. I find myself like a man placed before an overwhelming feast who, with the best intentions, "hath not stomach for it all." The bill of fare is so large, that I can only venture to select a few dishes; or to speak more seriously, there are matters so various, so vast, and of such great and paramount importance contained in the Queen's Speech, that even if I were disposed to trespass on your Lordships' time at any length—which I am not—it would require more vast and varied knowledge than I have any claim to, to deal with them with that justice which, many of the subjects command.
With regard to the first paragraph, intimating the existence of cordial relations with all foreign Powers, the assurance it conveys, although of the old stereotyped character, has, under present circumstances, far more than its usual significance, and will be received generally, I am sure, in a spirit of very deep and very earnest thankfulness. When we look back on the last year—when we consider the extraordinary

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number of events crowded within that brief space—how kingdoms have been overthrown, dynasties changed, battles waged and won, Europe dismembered and reconstructed, we can scarcely imagine that all these things, having taken place within so small a space—almost within a few weeks—should have yet assumed a character of such permanent durability as to promise to be lasting institutions, and afford a reasonable hope that the result of all these commotions would be to secure the peace of Europe. I fervently hope it may be so.
The next paragraph in the Speech deals with the questions pending between this country and the Government of the United States; and I am sure your Lordships will hear with satisfaction that it is likely that the differences which have existed between the two Governments may Boon be amicably settled by arbitration. The noble Lord at the head of Foreign Affairs deserves great credit for the course he has taken on this subject. It requires more courage to pursue a course of conciliation, than one of irritation and resistance, and I hope the wisdom of such a course will be generally acknowledged, and that it will lay the foundation of lasting friendly relations between the two countries.
Your Lordships will be sorry to hear that the war between Spain and the Republics of Chile and Peru still continues; but your Lordships will be glad to hear that there is a fair prospect of bringing about improved relations between Turkey and its Cretan subjects. With respect to the proposed Confederation of the British Provinces in North America, I feel that the welfare and well-being of that country can only be considered as second to our own. The cheerfulness with which necessarily imposed self-sacrifices have been borne, the resolute attitude opposed to the Fenian insurrection, and the universal loyalty invariably displayed towards the British Crown, must always command our highest respect and consideration for the Canadian people, and render it a matter of pleasure as well as policy to draw as closely as possible the bonds of union between us. I am sure, also, that your Lordships will be glad to hear that Her Majesty's Government do not consider it necessary to continue the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, and that is one of the best evidences of the wisdom of the course which has been pursued by the Executive. We are all of
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us willing to bear testimony to the admirable mixture of firmness and conciliation which characterized the Administration of the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Kimberley), and I hope the noble Lord now at the head of affairs in Ireland (the Marquess of Abercorn) will prove himself no unworthy successor; and I trust that, without having to recur to stringent measures, we may see the end of this deplorable, but happily unsuccessful, attempt of a party of misguided men to subvert all lawful authority in Ireland. In connection with this I may allude to another topic in another part of the Speech, but which is so closely interwoven with it that one is in fact a continuance, if not an equal part and parcel of the other—I mean that alluding to the relations between Landlord and Tenant. There are two much-vexed questions always supposed to lie at the root of all Irish grievances—the Established Church, and the land system as applied in Ireland. The first of these we are not now called upon to discuss, but the other is a question of great importance, which concerns the whole country—the owner of land, the occupier of land, the Roman Catholic priest, and the Protestant clergyman. It affects every one, and there can be no doubt that it is a matter of very great difficulty and of very great importance. Some are of opinion that legislation is necessary; but others say that legislation would only be an interference between capital and labour, and that it must be left between the man who lets the land and the man who holds it; that it must be left to the natural course of things to be set right. I am sorry to say the natural course of things has been in operation for a considerable length of time, and it has not done much for it yet. I only mention this to show the value of what I trust will be the action of Parliament upon the subject. I am glad that Her Majesty's Government have taken the question in hand, and I trust it will be satisfactorily settled by a Government at the head of which is my noble Friend, himself an Irish proprietor; and I may be allowed to say before his face it is an additional qualification for settling the question that his whole life has been an unvarying testimony of his practical anxiety for the welfare of all whom Providence has placed under him. We do not want securities for men who have neither capital nor enterprize; but we do want security that

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the man who has both, and who spends both upon the land that he tills, should not be deprived of the fruits of his industry, or that the landlord should reap the whole of the advantages which his enterprize and industry have conferred upon the land. If Her Majesty's Government can do this, they will do more to settle the agitation in Ireland, and to restore peace and tranquillity to the country, than by the most stringent measure of coercion which it is possible to propose. Such measures are but the irritating, though alas necessary, remedies that attack the manifest symptoms of the disease; the other would go far towards laying the axe to the root of the evil itself.
My Lords, the next points to which I wish to call your Lordships' attention are the cases of the cholera and the cattle plague. I am happy to learn that the former disease appears to be expiring; but there are signs that the cattle plague may again break out. My Lords, I come from a part of the country which, unhappily, suffered considerably from its ravages, and I believe that our sad experience has left us so entirely in the dark as to any means of prevention or cure, that if it should unhappily break out again, there are no better means to stop its ravages than those that were before resorted to—that is, to stamp out the disease by slaughtering the animals that are infected. Then as to sanitary measures, nothing can be better than an adequate supply of pure and wholesome water, respecting which Her Majesty's Government announce they are about to issue a Commission of Inquiry especially with regard to the metropolis. If this can be effected, it will be the best preservative that can be devised against cholera. In addition to this, there are several other measures of administration which are proposed—a measure for making better provision for the arrangement of the affairs of railways, for improving the management of the sick and other poor in the metropolis, and also various legal reforms and improvements to which I have no doubt your Lordships' attention will in due time be called.
There are one or two other important subjects to which I wish to allude before I sit down. The first is the organization of capital and labour. I believe that legislation can do little in this matter except by laying down sound economical principles and protecting every man in the freedom of his own industry.
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I must say this for the working men of the kingdom, my Lords, that I have always found them amenable to reason. I have had, in one way or another, a good deal to do with working men, and I have always found that they were open to reason. But, my Lords, I cannot say as much for the men who lead and guide them; men with ready tongues and mischievous brains, anxious at any price to secure their own momentary importance, and careless of the dangers and difficulties into which they are leading those who place only too implicit confidence in them. I am willing to admit that trades unions were, in their origin, perfectly legal, and might even in parts of their operation be beneficial. So long as the capitalists of this country were making large profits, it was reasonable that a portion of those profits should be transferred to labour, in order to ameliorate their condition and improve their wages. But, then, when profits had reached their minimum, when the trade of the country was in a state of collapse, is it reasonable that the rate of wages should still be insisted on being kept up to the same high standard? My Lords, I want the eyes of the working men to be opened to their own suicidal policy. They are killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. The trades unions may decide that the working man shall not take less than a given rate of wages; but they cannot compel the employer to give those wages.
"One man may bring a horse unto the brink,
But five-and-twenty cannot make him drink."
It has been well said that capital is a coy nymph; and that if she be too roughly wooed she is apt to fly away. My Lords, are there not signs that she is preparing to fly away? Carpenters' work is now, to a large extent, imported from abroad; the frames of doors and windows are now prepared abroad and imported into this country. It is important, then, to consider what, under these circumstances, ought to be done. With respect to the state of trade at home, I can speak for myself. I have had a good deal of work done within the last two or three years; and last year I was told by a master builder, whom I employed, "My Lord, if I had this work to undertake again I would not make the same terms with your Lordship that I have done; I would charge one-third more in price, and I would not enter into any contract as to the time when it should be done." How singular is the conduct of the London shipwrights. Think for a

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moment what that conduct is. The men have struck for 7s. a day; they refuse to work for 6s. 6d.a day; that is, for over £100 a year—a larger income than that which is enjoyed by many Government clerks and poor curates. But that is not all. They are willing, they say, to take 6s. 6d.a day, if an excuse can be made for them, and it can be made to appear that they are getting 7s. a day, because under no emergency is it to be supposed that their rate of wages is to be lowered. This, then, is the state of things. The men have refused 6s. 6d.; that is to say, they have refused an income of more than £100 a year. Their families are thrown upon the parish, and the wealthy are called upon to subscribe for them, and out of the charity of the people of England these destitute people are to be supported who have refused 6s. 6d.a day; and more than that, the parish rates will be raised on people who earn 5s. a day to compel them to support men who refuse to work for 6s. 6d.One thing more. The trades unions, when they go in for an increase of wages, promise an immediate gain to their members. Everybody can understand the advantage of an increase of wages. But when they go farther, when they interfere not only for the purpose of raising the rate of wages, but when they interfere with the freedom of labour of each other; when they insist that a man shall not be allowed to use those abilities which God has given him—that he shall not earn as much as he can by the labour of his hands for the support of his family, but insist on bringing all down to one low level, so that the skilful workman shall not do more than the most ignorant and idle—if this is to be allowed to take place, then, my Lords, I do not think I use too strong words when I say that it is absolute wickedness. One word more, my Lords, and I have done with the trades unions. In a speech delivered at Birmingham in I860, the hon. Member for Birmingham says that—
"Working men have associations, trade societies, organizations, and I want to ask them why it is that all these various organizations throughout the country could not be made use of for the purpose of obtaining their political rights."
Now, my Lords, after all that we have heard and seen of the way in which trades unions manage their own affairs—how carefully they treat the ticklish relations of capital and labour—with what caution and forethought they treat
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the question of labour so as not to press too hardly upon the interests of the employers—how tender they are of the workman's wages—I ask, are they the people whom, in the event of their having a Reform Bill, with a considerable extension of the franchise—are they the people whom, in such an event, you would wish to see possessed of the larger portion of the political power of this country? A question has been raised whether there is to be a Reform Bill or not; but the question is now answered, and there is to be a Reform Bill. It must be admitted that the present time is unquestionably favourable for its consideration. There is fortunately no suffering in the country. The commercial panic has passed away. It has pleased God that there should be no disturbance at home or abroad, men's minds are full of the subject. The people of England have undoubtedly spoken their opinions very decidedly on the subject. It can no longer be said that there is no waving for Reform. There are large numbers of the working classes whom every man in England would be glad to see admitted to the franchise. I believe that if you were to poll all England, a very small percentage of the population would be found to say that it would be better to have no Reform. Another question is, what is the Reform Bill to be? and here there may be some difficulty about the matter. If the past has not decided what a Reform Bill should be, it has clearly pointed out that which it ought not to be; for it has been pretty well established that the country will not have a hasty and ill-considered and incomplete Reform Bill, nor one that will not set the question at rest for some time. These are the qualities that I hope to see developed; but, above all things, it must be such a Bill that while it shall not dispose altogether of the question, shall set it at rest for a considerable time. I think, if I may use such a phrase, that it is simple nonsense to be talking of finality in reference to Reform, you might as well talk of finality in reference to steam or gas; for in an age of progress such as this in which we live there cannot be such finality. What was sufficient for our fathers was not enough for us. What will satisfy us will probably not do for those who shall come after us. Whether it be a Liberal or a Conservative Government, if it is to stand, it cannot stand still; its progress must be upward and onward, and

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its motto must be Excelsior. The fact is that the progress of education and the spread of knowledge—and especially of the knowledge of political economy—has brought about this, that, whether for good or for evil, the people of this country will to a great extent govern themselves. The Government has not power to control this feeling, but it has the power of direction; and this power is that which must chiefly be exercised. The wheel will no doubt go round and the stream flow on, and the nation at large must move on with it. The object of a good Government must, under those circumstances, be to direct the wheel into the right groove, and to turn the stream into its proper channel, so that it shall be a fertilizing current instead of a devastating flood. A Reform Bill framed in that spirit will, I hope, be introduced by Her Majesty's Ministers; and a Bill so framed will, I have no doubt, recommend itself to the consideration of all classes of the people. When I mention all classes, I must except those who, under the name of Reform, would produce revolution, and who, instead of the adequate representation of all classes, would prefer to see established the dominant superiority of one class. I would say to such persons, "Show yourselves in your true colours; do you want a true representation of the varied feelings and interests of this country by honest, earnest men, convinced of the truth of the principles they advocate, or do you wish that the representative body of this kingdom should be reduced into a mere transcript of the popular feeling of the day, and, indeed, of the feeling of the most suffering, and, therefore, the most impressionable, part of the people of the kingdom?" In making these remarks, I must not be understood as contending that they furnish an argument against all Reform. On the contrary, there is no Member of your Lordships' House more sincerely convinced than I am of the absolute necessity of a considerable extension of the franchise as well as a re-distribution of seats. The considerations to which I refer were simply an argument in favour of great caution in dealing with our system of representation, as made up of parts which, although they may each of them be open to objection and capable of amendment, have yet worked well together, and made up a useful and harmonious whole. It is an argument in favour of a judicious, cautious, and temperate Reform; of a hesitation neither cowardly nor un-
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wise over every footstep before it is definitively planted on that path where onward progress, be it to safety or to ruin, is fearfully easy—but return is impossible.
My Lords, I have now done; and I have only to thank your Lordships for the patience with which you have listened to me. But I will just add that the year that has passed has been one of suffering and of sorrow, owing to the prevalence of pestilence and other causes, yet during its course we have been spared the miseries of war; and I hope that, so far as we can judge, there is a better prospect before us for the future. And it is in accordance with this promise that the Government are about to propose what I think, without resorting to enthusiastic language, may be described as a very noble catalogue of measures which are likely to produce great good to the country; and it is now to the energy and sagacity of your Lordships' and of the other House of Parliament, and also to your courtesy and forbearance, that we must look for the hope of realizing a plenteous harvest from this "fair promise of the opening year." My Lords, in conclusion, I beg to second the Address which has just been moved by my noble Friend. [See Page 14.]
EARL RUSSELL: My Lords, I am happy to say with respect to the Address, which has been moved and seconded in a manner so fair and so temperate, that I can see no reason why we on this side of the House should offer to it any objection. But, with regard to the Speech from the Throne, I think it necessary to make a few observations. No one can complain either of the brevity of that Speech, or of want of variety in the topics with which it deals. I shall touch merely upon those points which I deem to be of the greatest interest and importance. The first which invites attention is the late war in Europe. In dealing with that question I would rather refer to a sentence which occurred in the Speech of Her Majesty at the end of last Session, than comment upon the very short paragraph in the Speech before us. At the close of last Session Her Majesty was pleased to declare—
"Her Majesty cannot have been an indifferent spectator of events which have seriously affected the positions of Sovereigns and Princes with whom Her Majesty is connected by the closest ties of relationship and friendship; but Her Majesty has not deemed it expedient to take part in a contest in which neither the honour of Her Crown nor the interest of Her people demanded any active intervention on Her part."

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I entirely agree with that proposition. It appears to me to state fully and satisfactorily the reason why Her Majesty's Government did not interfere in the war between Prussia and Austria. In the Speech read, Her Majesty is made to say—
"I hope that the Termination of the War in which Prussia, Austria, and Italy have been engaged may lead to the Establishment of a durable Peace in Europe."
My Lords, we all hope the same; but although I, for one, sincerely hope that will be the case, this is a point on which, I am sorry to say, I am not sanguine. We cannot help seeing that ever since the aggression upon Denmark, two years ago, in opposition to all treaties and all faith hitherto observed with respect to treaties, a spirit of aggression has prevailed, or seemed to prevail, in Europe, especially in the case of one Power, which may in the future lead to great calamities. The subject is one, therefore, with regard to which it is impossible not to have some apprehension. I trust it will not be so, but it is impossible to ignore the possibility of such a catastrophe; still more, if we refer to rumours afloat on the subject. The next topic which is referred to in the Royal Speech is that with regard to the United States—
"I have suggested to the Government of the United States a Mode by which Questions pending between the Two Countries arising out of the late Civil War may receive amicable Solution, and which, if met, as I trust it will be, in a corresponding Spirit, will remove all Grounds of possible Misunderstanding, and promote Relations of cordial Friendship."
I believe it is not quite the usual and grammatical construction of a sentence to talk about meeting a mode; but with regard to the substance of the paragraph, I see no reason why, because I, when at the head of the Foreign Office, did not accept certain propositions which were made to me, the noble Lord now at the head of that Department should not come to a different conclusion. I, myself, in dealing with questions relating to America—as, for instance, in the case of the Bay Islands—took a course more in conformity with the views of the American Government than my predecessors in Office had deemed it their duty to pursue. The honour of the country is not, I assume, compromised in the proposal which the Government have made. Indeed, I should hear with extreme and painful surprise that the noble Earl opposite had consented to any solution of the question of which this
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could be asserted. I conclude that the papers on the subject will be laid before Parliament at the earliest possible period, so that we shall be informed very soon what proposition has been made, and whether it has been met in the spirit which the Government seem so confidently to predict. There are various topics in the Speech which I do not think it necessary to deal with now. They are measures of great importance, and I trust that when they are produced your Lordships will find that they will be such as will be conducive to the welfare of the country. Passing over, however, these topics for the present, I come at once to a subject on which the attention of the country is fixed—I mean the subject of Parliamentary Reform. Upon that question the Speech from the Throne tells us—
"Your Attention will again be called to the State of the Representation of the People in Parliament; and I trust that your Deliberations, conducted in a Spirit of Moderation and mutual Forbearance, may lead to the Adoption of Measures which, without unduly disturbing the Balance of political Power, shall freely extend the Elective Franchise."
I may, I hope, conclude from this paragraph—which is somewhat mysteriously worded—that a Bill will very soon be introduced into the other House of Parliament dealing with Reform; and that it will contain provisions so fair and satisfactory that that House may be able to meet and consider it in a liberal spirit, and to give it its support. Having paid a good deal of attention to this subject, and having been much connected with it, I must request your Lordships to allow me to state how it has arrived at the not very satisfactory position in which it at present stands. There was, unfortunately, incorporated with the Reform Act—against the wishes of its framers—a clause called the Chan-dos Clause, which introduced into the electoral body in the counties a set of persons who, I should say, were about the most dependent class existing in the country—namely, the£50 tenants-at-will. It was urged against the proposal that those tenants would be sure to vote in a particular way; that they were, in fact, so dependent upon their landlords that they would vote as they were bidden. However, the House accepted the clause, and the Government of Lord Grey did not think it wise to interfere with its decision. The consequence was that the Act, which might otherwise have settled the question of Reform for fifty years, subsequently

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became the subject of discussion in the House of Commons. It was then proposed, by an hon. Member of great respectability, to reduce the county occupation franchise from £50 to £10, and the House agreed to the second reading of a Bill brought in for that purpose fifteen years ago. But it was then thought that if changes were to be made in the Reform Act, there were other classes of persons who also ought to have the elective franchise, and that their admission to it would strengthen the Constitution, would give additional force to what may be called the garrison of the Constitution, and enable a large class of deserving men in boroughs, renting houses somewhat under £10, to take a greater interest in political affairs. These deserving persons comprised the well-doing artisans in the towns of this country; and it was therefore proposed that they should be admitted along with occupiers at a lower rent than £50 in counties. This last proposal was strongly opposed. It was said, "You must not degrade the franchise." That was the phrase constantly used. Accordingly, when the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Derby) was in power in 1859, it was declared that the extension of the franchise must be only in a lateral direction—that no proposal for lowering of the suffrage in towns could be admitted or listened to. That, as I conceived, was a very great defect in the measure of the noble Earl, excluding, as it did, by a new Reform Bill, every man, however deserving, whose rent happened to be under £10 from the franchise. That Bill had also another defect—it would have tended to restore nomination boroughs, for it was quite clear that by certain provisions of it landowners living 200 miles off would be enabled to go and vote, and thus swamp the inhabitants of the borough. I thought, therefore, that it was my duty to endeavour to persuade the House to reject the Bill. The House of Commons listened to me, and passed a Resolution which the Government were obliged either to accept or else they were bound to give up their Bill, The Government gave up their measure and dissolved Parliament. It is true that they afterwards intimated that they thought the borough franchise might be lowered, but that was only when a Motion of Want of Confidence in them was brought forward by the Marquess of Hartington. Since then the lowering of the franchise has been constantly opposed; and before
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the elections in 1865, it was declared by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli) that, most happily, the House of Commons had refused to "degrade" the suffrage. That, however, was not the real question, but whether the artisans of this country, the best of them living in houses somewhat under £10, should, or should not, have the power of voting for Members of Parliament. I made a variety of proposals upon that subject, but they were all to the same effect. There was not one of those which I do not still consider to be a good proposition, though some may have been better than others; but the party now in power constantly and openly opposed them all. Then, my Lords, what happened last Session? The Government of that day thought it right again to introduce a measure on that question; and I think your Lordships will see that the proposition to admit to the franchise in counties tenants at a value somewhat under £50, and in towns a number of artisans occupying houses at a value somewhat under £10, need not have frightened anybody, especially as a very similar proposal had been carried into effect with your Lordships' consent in respect to Ireland, where the occupation franchise is now fixed by Act of Parliament at £12 in counties and £8 in boroughs. By our Bill of last year we proposed an occupation franchise of £14 in counties and £7 in boroughs. It might at least have been dispassionately considered, but how was it met? Our proposals were met in a manner which I have always considered was neither honourable to those concerned, nor safe for the country; for it has been the cause of what the noble Lord the Seconder of the Address complained of, when he said that there were persons who, as he stated, were misleading the artisan classes. The noble Earl opposite thought it necessary last year to make a declaration as to the course which he should pursue with regard to our Bill. I have referred to the speech made by the noble Earl, in which he found fault with my conduct in regard to his Bill of 1859. The noble Earl said—
"How that Bill was encountered, defeated, and got rid of, perhaps the noble Earl has now forgotten. I can assure him I have not."—[3 Hansard, clxxxi. 100.]
Then, going on to make a declaration of the course which he should himself pursue with respect to any measure introduced by the then Government, on February 6,1866, the noble Earl proceeded as follows—

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"I will express no opinion upon their measure until I have seen it. I hope it will be such a measure as I shall be able to support, that it will be a reasonable and satisfactory settlement of this great and important question, which I believe it is desirable to settle, and settle once for all. And I promise the noble Earl another thing—that his Bill shall have fair play; that it shall not be thrust aside by any underhand methods; that there shall be no factious movements or combinations against it on the part of those who can combine for nothing else; that it shall be dealt with on its merits; that if we can approve it we shall give it our cordial support; but that, on the other hand, if we disapprove it and think it is imperfect, inadequate, or dangerous, and, above all, if we think it one leading to future agitation within a brief period of a perilous character, then with whatever means we may possess we shall do our best to throw it out by fair debate and honourable opposition."—[3 Hansard, clxxxi. 101.]
My Lords, it is my privilege to give my opinion on this matter, and I must say I think our Bill did not have "fair play;" that it was encountered by "underhand methods" and by "factious movements and combinations on the part of those who could combine for nothing else;" that it was not "dealt with upon its merits;" and that it was not met by "fair debate and honourable opposition." That, my Lords, is a statement of my opinion. It is hardly necessary that I should now trace the career of that Bill through the House of Commons, but I may state what I hold to be a fair opposition. Our plan for reforming the county occupation franchise was by placing it at £14. It was proposed, on the other hand, that £20 should be the limit fixed. That was, I think, a fair mode of meeting the Bill, and an honourable way of dealing with the question; and if it had been adopted by the House of Commons, it would have formed a basis for the county franchise. Now, let me state what I regard as a course of quite a different character. It was said that a Bill proposing in the first place to deal with the franchise in England, similar to one which had been passed in the case of Ireland, was not sufficient. It was proposed that the measures for the re-distribution of seats should be dealt with in the same Bill as the franchise; and that proposal was supported, not by those who wished to see a great and complete measure of Reform, but by those who were opposed to any change in the present system, and who thought it would be inconsistent with the public interests to have any Reform at all. That proposal was defeated; but it was afterwards agreed by the Government that the Re-distribution Bill
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should be grafted upon the Bill for extending the franchise. Again, when we submitted our measure providing for the re-distribution of the seats, it was sought to graft upon that the further proposal that the part of the Bill dealing with the re-distribution of the seats should be taken first and disposed of before proceeding with the other part of the question. Now, if your Lordships will consider that in 1832 the question of the simple re-distribution of seats occupied from the beginning of July till the end of September, and that our draft Bill contained, not only proposals for taking away Members from certain boroughs, but also for grouping different towns together with a view, if possible, to prevent bribery and corruption, you will at once perceive the inevitable result. Had the House of Commons decided upon proceeding with that portion of the measure first, there would have been such lengthened controversies every day, not only upon the different places that were to be grouped, but also as to one borough being ten miles distant and another not more than eight, and the like minutim, that it would have taken probably from the beginning of July to the end of September to get through Committee, and it would then have been quite impossible before the close of the Session to have had any discussion on the real question—namely, whether a £6, a £7, or an £8 rating, or any other franchise, should be adopted for boroughs. That was the way in which the then Opposition evaded dealing with the Bill of the late Government on its merits. They endeavoured to defeat it by underhand proceedings, and by a proposal contrary to the rules of the House of Commons, and the practice of honourable opposition. It was contrary to the regulation that all parties have adopted for many years, that of giving notice of any important Amendment, and placing it on the Votes in a printed form, so that those who have to meet it should know what that Motion is. That step was taken without any such notice, and without any knowledge on the part of the Government that any Motion was about to be made. The Government were not aware of the Amendment till within five or ten minutes before it was moved, and they had come down prepared to deal with a Motion of which notice had been given in the regular way. That was the course adopted by the Opposition. I call that an unfair and underhand course. I say that, with

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regard to the Bill of the late Government it was not met on its merits, but an attempt was made to form a combination against it on the part of those who were unable to combine on any other subject. If I am well-founded in my history of what then took place, the noble Earl opposite has no occasion to "thank God that he was not as other men," nor even as those Publicans of 1859, because he was quite as bad as those Publicans. With respect to the Bill which the noble Earl is about to produce, I only hope that it will be produced soon; that it will contain such provisions that it may receive the support of the House of Commons and of your Lordships. For my own part, I neither promise to support it nor do I threaten opposition to it. If it be a good Bill, no doubt we shall be happy to see it carried. If it be a bad Bill, with an incomplete or delusive franchise, it would only lead to that to which the noble Earl last year justly objected. If we think it will lead on a future occasion to agitation of a perilous character, it will be our duty to oppose it. If the House of Commons pass a fair Bill, and your Lordships approve it, giving a great body of the artisans of this country the privileges which they are well fitted to exercise—if we impose upon them the duty which they are well fitted to perform, that of exercising the of the most important functions which can be exercised in a free country in voting for representatives to Parliament; in short, in selecting men on whom the conduct, power, faith, and freedom of this country depend for many years—if you give them that advantage freely and fairly, and to a proper extent, then you may hope to settle this question. But if, on the other hand, you endeavour by any tricks or shuffles to cheat them of that fair right, and endeavour to give them less than that to which they are entitled, you will not succeed, and you will lay the foundation of future agitation. I am aware that many of the public meetings have declared in favour of manhood suffrage, but hardly any one in either House of Parliament wishes for such a suffrage, and if you give the working classes of this country a fair proportion of votes you may hope to settle this question for a considerable time. But if you deal with it unfairly and inadequately there can be no better theme for agitation at the General Election, which must take place soon after the passing of such a Bill, than that the present House of Commons
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cheated the country, and that it was necessary to have a new Reform Bill and new Members of Parliament who would do their duty to their constituents more honestly than the Members of the present House of Commons. If I were an agitator I would wish for no better theme. The noble Earl having arrived at the conclusion that there ought to be a large Reform, will, I trust, reduce the franchise to such an extent that his measure will be accepted by the country. We all know very well that there are different methods of reasoning which affect different minds. Some people are very well convinced by the inductive method; others are more convinced by the method of deduction. Some like the algebraic, and others the geometric method. But with regard to noble Lords opposite there is no way which succeeds so well as being in Office. The noble Earl, in a speech delivered by him at Liverpool in the course of the summer, dwelt upon the great advantage arising from a change of Government from time to time. I quite agree with him in what he said; but there is a further advantage which he did not mention—namely, that when the noble Earl comes into Office he perceives the truth of propositions which he has been opposing for fifteen years. I have only further to say that I trust the measure which the Government have announced with respect to Ireland will have all the merits which ought to belong to our legislation on this subject—that it will have no injurious effects on the rights of property, but that it will enable tenants to make improvements. If the noble Earl secures those objects he will confer a great advantage upon Ireland. The last time the noble Earl was in Office he was particularly fortunate in the selection of his Lord Lieutenant. Lord Eglinton per-formed the duties of Lord Lieutenant in a manner which won the respect and admiration of all parties in Ireland and in this country. I believe that he has been equally fortunate in the selection of the present Lord Lieutenant, who has conducted himself in a manner to which no one can object. Of course, the duties of a Lord Lieutenant are those of Administration solely. As the late Lord Wellesley said, the duty of the Lord Lieutenant is to administer the law and not to alter it. There are other questions of importance affecting Ireland—among them that of landlord and tenant—which, when we have got rid of Reform, will deserve the atten-

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tion of your Lordships as much as any question can. My noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley), when he was Lord Lieutenant, made many valuable suggestions in regard to Ireland. But nothing can be undertaken on the subject of Ireland without the deepest consideration. The best intentions are not enough, but I do trust that measures for the amelioration of the condition of Ireland will be considered with deliberation and will be carried. I thank your Lordships for your attention, and have only to add that I do not consider it necessary to move any Amendment to the Address.
THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, I trust that, in addressing your Lordships, I may be permitted to express my gratitude to my noble Friends behind me for the very succinct, clear, and able manner in which they moved and seconded the Address. I should hardly have thought it possible to go through the varied topics of a Speech from the Throne with so much clearness, discretion, and brevity as was done by my noble Friend who moved the Address. There was not a single topic of the Speech which he left untouched, and not one which he did not touch upon with the most perfect fairness and discretion. I must also express my satisfaction that the noble Earl who has just sat down has not found any matter for comment—certainly not for objection—in the Speech from the Throne. I am more satisfied with the course which the noble Earl has found it expedient to pursue than even with his assurance that he does not intend to move an Amendment to the Address. In his somewhat lengthened discourse the noble Earl—with the exception of one important topic—has not commented on the Speech, but has thought it necessary to enter into an historical discussion as to the progress 'or non-progress of Reform for the last five-and-thirty years, and concerning the various Bills, and discussions, and disputes which have taken place. My Lords, I may say, at the outset, that I must decline to follow the noble Earl into that part of his speech. It is our earnest desire and hope that this great question of Parliamentary Reform may meet with an early and satisfactory settlement. Her Majesty's Ministers having announced their intention of bringing forward the question at a very early period, I may at once relieve the noble Earl's anxiety as to any attempt at delay upon our part by saying that upon the very earliest possible day—
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I believe on Monday next—it is the intention of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to lay before the House of Commons in detail the proposal which Her Majesty's Government intend to bring forward. But, my Lords, I am compelled to say that there is no hope of a satisfactory settlement of such a question if it be taken up in the spirit and in the temper which I am sorry to say the noble Earl has manifested. If it be the intention to meet this question, not with the view of considering what is best to be done, but by bandying recriminations with the opposite party, and with charging them with unfairness, inconsistency, and double dealing, and what not, and by carrying the recrimination backwards to a period of fifteen years or more, then I say, my Lords, there is no hope of this question arriving at a satisfactory settlement. In that case I should deeply regret the course which Her Majesty's Government have been induced to pursue in raising a question which can only lead to angry discussions without any probability of a satisfactory result. My Lords, we do desire to see this question satisfactorily settled. If, however, we desire to see the representation of the country placed upon a sound basis—if we desire to see a settlement of the question, which I do not say should be final, but which shall render unnecessary and improbable any agitation with regard to further measures for a very considerable time, then I say that such an object cannot be attained by making the question one of party and of political strife for the purpose of obtaining Office or Parliamentary majorities. The subject must be examined in a fair, deliberate, and dispassionate spirit. We must be prepared to give and take—we must be prepared to meet each other's views—we must be prepared, above all things, to cast away all questions of party and all questions of strife and political power. [Laughter Noble Lords laugh; but I say this, and I am speaking from the deepest conviction in my own mind, that there is no possible Government in this country that could, at the present moment, by itself carry a Reform Bill. The noble Earl tried it last year, when he thought he had a majority. He laid down the broad principle, that no Government was required or justified in bringing forward a Reform Bill unless they thought they had a reasonable prospect of being able to carry it. I do not go quite so far

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as the noble Earl; but I say that in the present state of parties no Government—be it on this side of the House or be it on that side of the House—can hope to carry by their own separate and distinct exertions such a Reform Bill as they might think the most desirable. If this question is to be settled it must be settled by mutual compromise, and by mutual forbearance, and not by bandying recriminations and reproaches upon past discussions and past differences. Although I cannot commend the accuracy of the noble Earl's recapitulation of what took place either in 1859 or 1866, I will not follow him into the topic. I will not argue with him as to the statement which the noble Earl made that from the period extending from 1832 down to 1866 the desire and attempt of the Conservative party was to keep the borough franchise from being reduced below £10, and to keep the county franchise from being reduced below £50. I may, however, say that, with regard to the county franchise, it is notorious that in 1859 the then Government proposed a larger reduction of the county franchise and a greater extension than has been proposed since that period. But the sense of the House, of the public, and of the country was pronounced against the proposal. It was, I think, a matter open to argument, that the county and borough franchise should stand upon the same footing; and it was in accordance with this view that when we proposed largely to reduce the county franchise we declined to reduce the borough franchise, so that we might maintain an equality betwixt the two. That proposal, however, was not sanctioned by the country or Parliament, and has never been introduced since, it having been generally admitted that there should be a difference with regard to the amount and character of the qualification of the counties and boroughs. From that time the noble Earl certainly has not given us many opportunities of expressing our opinion upon the subject. Since 1860 down to 1866 he was perfectly satisfied to leave the whole question of the franchise and Reform alone; and it was not till last year that his newly awakened zeal for the benefit of the artisans and the working classes led him to bring forward a hasty, imperfect, and crude proposition. How the Bill was defeated is matter of history. It was not defeated solely by the political opponents of the noble Earl, but by many of those who, being his supporters, felt
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the measure was so ill-considered, so incomplete, so unsatisfactory, and at the same time so dangerous, that, although the House of Commons had unanimously assented to the principle of a Bill extensively lowering the franchise, and introducing material changes, yet, when they came to discuss the details of the measure, they felt they could not give it their support. It was not, therefore, by the opposition mainly of the opponents of the then Government, but practically by the opposition of those who were generally supporters of the Government, and Members of the Liberal party, that that Bill was pronounced to be one to which the House of Commons could not give its sanction. I beg your Lordships' pardon for having been led into taking so much notice of the topics that have been introduced by the noble Earl. I will not say a word further about the measure which Her Majesty's Government are to bring in, but that this question should be left for discussion until the time when it is fairly brought before the House. I think that this question cannot be brought forward in a satisfactory manner upon such an occasion as the discussion of the Address to the Crown; but that when it is brought forward it should be laid before the House in such a manner as will fully and clearly set forth the reasons for the course which it is intended to pursue, and will give the House, which is principally, though not exclusively, interested in its settlement, a full opportunity of passing their judgment upon the measure recommended by Her Majesty's Ministers. Passing from this subject, there are only one or two further topics contained in the speech of the noble Earl to which I can advert. In the first place, he expressed a hope that in any proposition that might be made by the United States Government for the settlement of those unfortunate differences which have arisen out of the late Civil War, the present Government may do nothing which may sacrifice or imperil the honour of this country. He did not complain that Her Majesty's present Government had taken a different course from that which he had thought fit to pursue; but he hoped we should make no concessions calculated to sacrifice the honour of the country. My Lords, although certain negotiations have taken place, the correspondence has not yet arrived at the point at which I should think it consistent with my duty to lay it before the House; but I

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may venture to say that in that correspondence whenever it shall be laid before your Lordships—and it shall be laid on the table at as early a period as the public service will allow—the noble Earl will find that while Her Majesty's Government are disposed to come to an amicable solution of the matter if they are capable, they will in no degree depart from that which is due to the honour of the country, or forfeit any of those rights which properly belong to independent nations. The noble Earl has stated that he believes some proposition has been made to the Government of the United States. The fact is this:—Shortly after the accession to Office of the present Government the United States Government addressed a despatch to the noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Office recapitulating the grounds of complaint which they stated they had against the British Government. In point of fact, these were the same as those which had been before pressed upon the noble Earl. In answer to the despatch my noble Relative thought it necessary to enter, not acrimoniously but particularly, into a discussion of the various points which the United States Government presented for adjustment and compensation. I may say that there was one question which pressed upon my mind, as it had on the mind of the noble Earl opposite, and upon which we found it impossible to come to any compromise, and that was the question of the right of this country to decide at what time, and under what circumstances, it should recognise belligerent rights. With regard to this point, I think the answer which the noble Earl formerly gave was entirely conclusive—namely, that in the first place the question of the discretion to recognise belligerent rights was inherent in an independent country; and in the next place, that in this particular instance the recognition of belligerent rights did not precede but followed the declaration of blockade on the part of the United States Government. Blockade is essentially an exercise of belligerent rights; and after the blockade had been declared by one of the belligerents, there were but two courses for the Government of this country to pursue—namely, to refuse to recognise the validity of the blockade on the ground that there were no belligerents, or to recognise the belligerent rights of both parties. Between these two alternatives the late Government selected that which the noble Earl truly said was
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most friendly to the United States—namely, they recognised the very imperfect blockade. At the same time, they found themselves under the necessity of recognising correlative obligations. I cannot but think that this is a point which the United States Government will not, upon reflection, think it necessary or expedient to press, and for this reason:—We saw lately, I think it was upon the introduction of the now French Minister from Washington, that a declaration was officially made to the effect that after the evacuation of Mexico by the French troops there would no longer remain between the two countries a single question which could lead to a ground of difference, or be made the subject of complaint; and thus nothing would remain to interfere with the cordial relations which the United States always desire to keep up with France. Now, with regard to the recognition of belligerent rights, Her Majesty's late Government and the Government of the Emperor of the French proceeded in concert, acting simultaneously, and pursuing a precisely identical course; and even if I attributed to the United States Government a feeling of unfriendliness towards this country—which I am very far from doing—they could not denounce as a reasonable ground for complaint, compensation, and remonstrance against this country that which they have officially declared to be no obstacle between friendly nations on the part of the Government of France, whose action was simultaneous and identical with that of this country. But we have said this—if the Government of the United States will state the principle upon which the arbitration is to proceed; if they will point out the precise question which they wish to have referred to arbitration, and the grounds on which they ask for redress and compensation, we, on our parts, shall be quite ready to meet them in a friendly spirit for the purpose of discussing the particular questions on which the arbitration is sought; and if we can find an impartial arbitrator, we shall be prepared to submit those questions to his judgment. These are, in substance, the proposals we have made to the United States Government. It remains to be seen whether negotiations founded on those principles can be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. I hope and trust that they may; because I am convinced that there are no countries whose interests are more deeply involved in the maintenance of friendly relations with one another

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than this country and the great Republic on the other side of the Atlantic. I believe that nothing could be more suicidal than a war between England and the United States; and that no other countries in the world could either inflict upon each other so large an amount of injury, or be productive to each other of so many benefits. There is, I think, only one other point in Her Majesty's Speech to which the noble Earl adverted, and that is the measure which we propose to introduce for the settlement of the relation between landlord and tenant in Ireland. I do not at all wish to detract from the merits which the noble Earl ascribed—and very properly ascribed—to the Administration of the late Lord Lieutenant of that country; and I agree with the noble Earl that one of the Irish questions most necessary to be solved, and at the same time perhaps most difficult of solution, is that question of the relation between landlord and tenant. I will not, however, anticipate the discussion of that particular measure which we propose to bring forward. The Bill upon the subject is prepared, and is ready to be laid upon the table of the other House; and I will only say that in preparing that Bill Her Majesty's Government were anxiously desirous of giving, on the one hand, every facility to tenants for improving their holdings and for benefiting themselves by those improvements, and, on the other hand, of maintaining those just rights of property on the part of landlords which cannot be interfered with without destroying the whole social condition of this country. As the noble Earl did not think it necessary to comment on any other portion of Her Majesty's Speech, and as, after waiting for a little time, I did not find that any other noble Lord was desirous of addressing your Lordships, I will not touch any further upon the various topics to which the Speech refers; but I will content myself with expressing my thankfulness to your Lordships for the manner in which you have received the Speech and the Address, and I hope that the temperate spirit which has been displayed upon this occasion, furnishes a just indication of the courtesy and the candour with which the measures that may be submitted to your Lordships will be received during the remainder of the Session.
Address agreed to, Nemine Dissentiente, and Ordered to be presented to Her Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.
The LORD REDESDALEappointed, Nemine Dissentiente, to take the Chair in all Committees of this House for this Session.
COMMITTEE FOR PRIVILEGES—Appointed.
SUB-COMMITTEE FOR THE JOURNALS—Appointed.
APPEAL COMMITTEE—Appointed.
House adjourned at half past Seven o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter before Five o'clock.