(NO. 68.) SECOND READING. (Hansard, 8 May 1866)

§ LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY
, in moving the second reading of the Bill, said, that it had its origin in a desire to meet the wants of the labouring classes who had been driven from their habitations to so great an extent by the construction of railways and public works. The object of the Bill was to enable the Public Works Commissioners to advance to public companies and private individuals sums of money not exceeding one-half of the value of the premises to be erected, for the purpose of providing dwellings for the labouring classes, and the advance was to be charged interest at the rate of 4 per cent.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
said, the Bill was one of an exceptional character, and certainly not in accordance with the usual principles of legislation. It was no doubt a great object which it had in view, and might operate very advantageously for the labouring classes; but as he understood, money was to be advanced to public companies for the purpose of building houses for the labouring classes, without any stipulation as to rents that were to be required in return. This was giving an opportunity for mere speculation. In all previous Acts of a similar character the object had been to secure a moderate rent, with a fair return to the builder. Unless provision were made that the rents required should be moderate in amount, the very object of the measure would be defeated.

§ LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY
considered the objection of the noble Earl would be obviated by a provision which was contained in the Bill, that the advances should only be made under such regulations as to rent and other matters as the Treasury might think proper to lay down.

§ THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY
said, he cordially approved the object of the Bill; and whether the principle were good or bad, it had been repeatedly sanctioned by both Houses of Parliament, and money had been advanced to private persons for a variety of purposes. There were several important considerations, however, of which it was desirable not to lose sight in dealing with the subject. Their Lordships were 568 asked to provide for the replacement of a class of houses in which one family occupied at the most two rooms, while in many instances the accommodation was confined to a single apartment. Now, if much more ample accommodation than two rooms should be furnished in the buildings which would be erected under the operation of the Bill, it was possible that the rent would he so largely increased that a considerable number of those who would be displaced would not be able to pay it; while if single rooms were set aside for occupation a legislative sanction would, as it were, be given to that system of several persons dwelling together in one apartment, which was so subversive of all health and decency. He wished also to impress upon their Lordships the necessity, particularly in the event of money being lent to private speculators under the Bill, of having due precautions taken to prevent them from running up houses of a miserable description, which might tumble down at the end of twenty years. - He did not think that Bill would have any very extensive operation, because the rate of interest fixed was too high to induce many borrowers; for the measure to do any good, the rate of interest should be reduced to 1½ or 2 per cent. The fact should not be overlooked that there were great differences in the condition of the working classes of the metropolis. Some of the skilled artizans of London, who earned 35s., 40s., and even as much as 60s. a week; might be able to pay 3s., or even 6s. a week for their lodgings; but the great mass of the labouring poor in London were in a very different position—he believed they did not earn on an average more than from 10s. to 12s. per week, and such persons could not pay more than 1s. 6d. or 2s. a week for their lodgings. He would also observe that the rents in London were very considerably increased by the circumstance that many of the skilled artizans required to live, not only in close proximity to their work, but in close proximity to each other. Take the case of the watchmakers of Clerkenwell as an illustration. A watch passed through the hands of at least 100 different workmen before it was completed, and these men must be contiguous to each other, because, although each workman might have a certain number of tools of his own, he must rely to a great extent on the assistance of his neighbours. But even if by the present measure they could make provision for the 569 skilled artizans, how could they make provision for that large mass of the labouring poor who lived in miserable dens and wretched alleys, and were unable to pay more than they now did for a single room—namely, 1s. 6d. or 2s. per week? That was the class which was least of all able to help itself. Yet, although the Bill might not have any extensive operation, he regarded its introduction as a useful experiment, believing that even if they lost the whole of the money employed in carrying it on they could well afford to do so—especially as it would be the means of procuring for them a great amount of valuable knowledge on a very important matter. Considering the enormity of the evil to be remedied, and that it was augmenting from day to day—because, while they were widening their thoroughfares and improving their street architecture, the labouring classes were—not sent to the outskirts of the metropolis, but were driven into houses already overcrowded, where pestilence, disease, immodesty, and everything most offensive to physical and moral life went on in an increasing ratio—he thought it was their duty to make every experiment in their power with a view to mitigate so frightful a state of things; and he therefore begged to thank the Government for their present attempt.

§ THE EARL OF POWIS
said, that the Public Loan Commissioners were prohibited by a Treasury Minute from advancing money at a lower rate of interest than 5 per cent, and expressed his fear that, unless the Government were prepared to reconsider that Minute, so as to allow advances to be made at a reduced rate of interest, the provisions of this Bill would remain a dead letter.

§ LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY
said, that the Bill gave the power of advancing money at an interest of 4 per cent.